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Forums - Gaming - Resolution Wars & The Hypocracy of the Tech Crowd

green_sky said:
Xen said:

Yup.

But for games, a silky-smooth framerate should always take priority. I agree.

Agree too. Better framerate helps with the gameplay but then people can't make threads like these...

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=171087&page=-1#1 Can't believe this is launch title.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=171184&page=-1#1 Those visuals are so sweet. Real gameplay when you softly move left stick forward. 

There was also one for Killzone. ZOMG graphics edition. 

Selnor always makes threads like these, famous for them, actually

At least with Killzone, they managed lock the Multiplayer at 1080p/60FPS, where FPS absolutely matter most (avid world of tanks player here!). The single player is also doing not that badly, locked at 1080p/30+ FPS, with many occasions of 60. Not going below 30 at least means it won't chug at occasions (looking at you, Dark/Demon's Souls)



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green_sky said:
Slimebeast said:

Is AMD 280 the card that everyone is talking about right now? The one who beats Titan in some games? Or is that AMD 290?

How much costs?

That would be AMD 290X. Priced around US$550-600. 

That's 2 much.

How fast is the 280 compared to 7950 and 7970 and how much costs?



Slimebeast said:
green_sky said:

That would be AMD 290X. Priced around US$550-600. 

That's 2 much.

How fast is the 280 compared to 7950 and 7970 and how much costs?

280 is basically rebranded 7970 ghz edition. 280 is suppose to retail at around $300-350. Lot of 7950 and 7970's are going at clearance prices now. So that would be a good place to check and discuss in pc thread here on vgchartz. Zarx, disolitude, pemalite and cgi know much more about this kind of stuff. 



Cinemablend agree with you.


Cinemablend calls out gaming press, accuses them of living in a Doritocracy : http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Gaming-Media-Defend-Xbox-One-Higher-Price-Lower-Resolution-60283.html%20



Predictions for end of 2014 HW sales:

 PS4: 17m   XB1: 10m    WiiU: 10m   Vita: 10m

 

green_sky said:
Xen said:

Yup.

But for games, a silky-smooth framerate should always take priority. I agree.

Agree too. Better framerate helps with the gameplay but then people can't make threads like these...

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=171087&page=-1#1 Can't believe this is launch title.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=171184&page=-1#1 Those visuals are so sweet. Real gameplay when you softly move left stick forward. 

There was also one for Killzone. ZOMG graphics edition. 


That awkward moment you link to a selnor thread lol.  Always over the top and exaggerated.



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Distance distance distance.

Let's use math!

Omega=2*arctan(9(screen size in inches)/((337)^(1/2)*2*(vertical screen resolution)*(distance from screen in inches)))

For a 1080p image on a 50inch screen at 5 feet, omega=.02167

For a 720p image in the same setting, omega=.03251

For a 1080p image on a 5 inch screen at 1 foot, omega=.01084

For a 720p image in the same setting, omega=.01626

 

The results are conclusive! It's the same percent change for each setting! However with diminishing returns, the 50inch screen going from 720p to 1080p would be more noticable! Math!

Disclaimer!
Omega represents the observed size of a pixel.
I don't know math.



JWeinCom said:
You're missing a huge part of the equation which is how close you are to the device. You are not going to notice a difference between 720 p and 1080 on a 30" screen if you're sitting at a normal distance. But, if you're going to be two inches away from the screen, then yeah, you might. So, when you're dealing with something that will be 6-12 inches from your face, resolution is more immediately noticeable. Dunno how noticable, but it's a factor.


Actually on a 30" screen the difference between 1080p and 720p at about 4 feet.

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html



JoeTheBro said:

Distance distance distance.

Let's use math!

Omega=2*arctan(9(screen size in inches)/((337)^(1/2)*2*(vertical screen resolution)*(distance from screen in inches)))

For a 1080p image on a 50inch screen at 5 feet, omega=.02167

For a 720p image in the same setting, omega=.03251

For a 1080p image on a 5 inch screen at 1 foot, omega=.01084

For a 720p image in the same setting, omega=.01626

 

The results are conclusive! It's the same percent change for each setting! However with diminishing returns, the 50inch screen going from 720p to 1080p would be more noticable! Math!

Disclaimer!
Omega represents the observed size of a pixel.
I don't know math.

I know what you're getting at but let me simplify it a bit.
Indeed who wants to sit 8-10 ft away from a 30" screen in 2015...

THX standard specifies a 40 degree field of view for optimal visual experience. That corresponds to 1.2 times the diagonal for sitting distance with a 16:9 screen. 3ft from a 30" screen, or 6ft from a 60" screen. 1080p isn't even very nice to look at at that distance, 4K will finally full fill the THX specifications.

SMPTE standard specifies a 30 degree field of view for optimal 1080p experience. Or 1.62 times the diagonal of a 16:9 screen, hence 4ft for 30", or 8ft for 60". Very noticeable difference between 720p and 1080p.

Or to simplify your Omega factor, the number of pixels per degree you see is easier to compare:
For 16:9 720p, perceived ppd = distance * 25.62 / diagonal
For 16:9 1080p, perceived ppd = distance * 38.45 / diagonal

For example
1080p 50" at 5ft (60") = 46 pixels per degree (92 pixels per degree at 1ft from a 5" screen)
720p 50" at 5ft (60") = 31 pixels per degree (61 pixels per degree at 1 ft from a 5" screen)

The human eye can distinguish individual pixels upto 60 pixels per degree while people report a better smoother more detailed looking picture upto 200 pixels per degree. Makes more sense to go higher on your tv then on your phone.

Ofcourse you can be happy sitting 8 ft away from 30" 720p at 82 pixels per degree. But I rather have a more immersive experience in 2015 then a 16 degree field of view. Horizontal fov in degrees = 2 * arctan ((0.436 * diagonal) / distance)



SvennoJ said:
 

I know what you're getting at but let me simplify it a bit.
Indeed who wants to sit 8-10 ft away from a 30" screen in 2015...

THX standard specifies a 40 degree field of view for optimal visual experience. That corresponds to 1.2 times the diagonal for sitting distance with a 16:9 screen. 3ft from a 30" screen, or 6ft from a 60" screen. 1080p isn't even very nice to look at at that distance, 4K will finally full fill the THX specifications.

SMPTE standard specifies a 30 degree field of view for optimal 1080p experience. Or 1.62 times the diagonal of a 16:9 screen, hence 4ft for 30", or 8ft for 60". Very noticeable difference between 720p and 1080p.

Or to simplify your Omega factor, the number of pixels per degree you see is easier to compare:
For 16:9 720p, perceived ppd = distance * 25.62 / diagonal
For 16:9 1080p, perceived ppd = distance * 38.45 / diagonal

For example
1080p 50" at 5ft (60") = 46 pixels per degree (92 pixels per degree at 1ft from a 5" screen)
720p 50" at 5ft (60") = 31 pixels per degree (61 pixels per degree at 1 ft from a 5" screen)

The human eye can distinguish individual pixels upto 60 pixels per degree while people report a better smoother more detailed looking picture upto 200 pixels per degree. Makes more sense to go higher on your tv then on your phone.

Ofcourse you can be happy sitting 8 ft away from 30" 720p at 82 pixels per degree. But I rather have a more immersive experience in 2015 then a 16 degree field of view. Horizontal fov in degrees = 2 * arctan ((0.436 * diagonal) / distance)

 

My intuitive observation and personal experience seem to totally agree with your math above. Given your numbers above, human eye cannot discern 1080 p on a 5 inch screen (92 pixels) but it can do with 720p (61). This is exactly what I experience.

Also your numbers again tell us that humans can easily recognize the difference between 1080p (46 pixels) and 720p (31 pixels) on a 50 inch TV at 5ft. This is also my exact experience!

In addition, this kinda proves the hypocracy of the Tech Crowd, who claim(!) that they do see a significance difference between 1080p and 720p smart hpne screens but keep downplaying the enourmous resolution gap between 720p and 1080p, while the very same crowd has been claiming CLEAR gains from 1080 to 4K.

A little bit math would also shed light on that. With your method,

1080p 50" at 5ft (60") = 46 pixels per degree  (below 60 threshold)
4K (3840 x 2160P) at 5ft (60") = 92 pixels per degree (far above 60 threshold)

so 60 degrees would require  1080*60/46 =1408 so roughly speaking, a resolution like 2500*1400 would be the human vision threshold. In other words, 4K (3840 x 2160) is a bit overkill at 92 pixels per degree. BUT The tech crowd seems to disagree and tend to like the 4K. Wow, such a twisted mind! They see LITTLE use for 1080p (from 31 to 46, entirely discernible) but they are VERY ENTHUSIASTIC about 4K while 2/3 of the improvement from 46 to 92 degrees is not only wasted (indiscernible) but also less useful due to dimishing returns!



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Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

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freedquaker said:


WE F***ING NEED THE 1080p on our TVs.


You do realize that every game will in fact be displayed in 1080p, reguardless of the native resolution right?