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Forums - Sony Discussion - Rumor: Demon Souls 2 May Be Announced at Sony Nov. 15 Event

kabamarutr on 05 November 2013
Kane1389 said:
kabamarutr said:
Kane1389 said:
No one could possibly make an objective argument as to why Demon's Souls is any way, shape or form better than Dark Souls.


No one.


Now that my turn is up, I shall offer an aspect in which I believe the Demn's game is somewhat better. Mind you, I'm a big fan of the genre, having invested hundred's of hours on both (just like you) with 4 or more playthroughs in each.

So, the weapons ' upgrading and general choice of play is more free on the first game. This is due to the fact that there are more "S" factored weapons than one can find in Dark Souls. This brings variety and freedom of choice. One can build dexterity and can still cleave with mega-amounts of damage, just using a simple "hiltless". Hell, you can even build luck and have a monstrous attack with the "blueblood sword". ...And the most "unique" of it all, you have weapons that exact damage based on character tendency. Pure white or pure black work perfectly with the "Northern Regalia".

On Dark Souls, on the other hand, choices are limited. Sooner or later, you understand that the Black Knight set is the only option. That's why I guess we saw so many players wielding the Black Knight Great Axe in the early days of the game. If I am not mistaken, there has been several updates that brought balance to the choice of melee attacking, but is still not just as free as Demon's was.

The above does not mean that one game is better than the other. A sensible thing, since it wouldn't be enough to judge a game, but it is one aspect in which - and quite objectively - the first game is better than the other.

If I may add, the World Tendency system was more to my liking as it added variety. I especially enjoyed events, like Black Event (during Black Friday week) or White Event (during Christmas week) during which, the whole difficulty of the game was adjusted. But since it's based on "my liking", it can't be called "objective".

I agree that the upgarde system is more deep in DmS, altho i personally hated anything involving character tendency.

But what's the point of it, when in PVP it all comes down to who'll stunlock the other player first or lagstab him to oblivion. DkS offerrs a lot more in terms of strategy and combat variety. 

As a person who spent 600+ hours on PvP only, i can tell you that i never used any piece of Dark Knight armour. And BKGA is a terrible weapon. The only reason people used it before was due to backstab fishing and the insane damage it did with the hornet ring. Other than that, the weapon is slow, predictable and incredibly easy to parry. 

As far as i know, the only adjustments made in DkS regarding weapons were swing speed for great swords/ long swords and -10% damage reduction on elemental weapons.

Well, it all has to do with you asking for something that was better in Demon's than Dark, so I provided an answer. I agree to almost everything else you state and trivial facts such as the one I have mentioned, are not enough to prclaim a "winner".

Many people prefer Demon's over Dark, but it has to do mostly with subjective reasons, things they thmeselves prefer or not. There are certain objective points of trivial superiority, such as the deeper upgrade system, even some others which you and I miss. But it really is not important. I personally can't decide yet which one I prefer most.

Come to think of it, Demon's doesn't have an almost broken territory like Blightown...



This, I stole from grandpa...It's called soap.

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kabamarutr on 05 November 2013
Soriku said:
kabamarutr said:

Which wasn't the case in Demon's as well, but that is not the issue. You claimed that what I stated was not at all true. When asked to prove said claim, you said that you don't know, because you don't play those builds. Demon's Souls had a representative - if I'm allowed that term - of an "S" factor in almost every build (if not all). It had even one for character tendency. This is not a gamebreaker. "S" does not beat anything , as you very correctly stated. Yet, it provides variety and balance.

Think about it: Why only have the Moonlight Greatsword - an "S" factored on Intelligence - and not something in other categories? Wouldn't that bring variety and choice of play? I had a friend with maxed out Green bar and pathetic Blue and Red correspondingly. He wielded two "hiltless" katana's making his initial stroke swift and nigh terminal. If he landed a blow first, most of the time he won. If not, he got killed easily. Yet, it was his choice of play and should be respected.

Anyway, I feel it is necessary to repeat that this trivial fact does not make a game better than another. It is just an answer - in good spirit - to the fellow some posts above who claimed that none can never find any (or other similar absolute expressions) elements in the first game that are better than their corresponding ones in the second. 


I just don't think having more S-scale weapons really matters in the end because you can still beat other builds, rather handily in fact, with other top-tier weapons even if they don't have S-scaling. Which is why I see a large variety of weapons used in PvP. because there really isn't so massive a difference between an S weapon or an A weapon. Or at least, not enough to matter.

We don't really disagree here. I just believe that giving more options to a player is generally a good thing, even if they are not of that much importance in-game. You think - if I have understood correctly - that since S-scaled (I'll follow your term :P) are not that much more effective than A-scaled ones, they should as well be omitted from the game. 

Why not then strike them all out and keep the A-scaled ones as top? Why did they put the Moonlight Greatsword in the first place? Agreed, I do much more damage with BKGA than with MG, although I'm currently at 80 Strength, 80 Intellingence. With rough calculations, I figured  that MG will never catch up.



This, I stole from grandpa...It's called soap.

kabamarutr on 05 November 2013
As a person who spent 600+ hours on PvP only, i can tell you that i never used any piece of Dark Knight armour. And BKGA is a terrible weapon. The only reason people used it before was due to backstab fishing and the insane damage it did with the hornet ring. Other than that, the weapon is slow, predictable and incredibly easy to parry. 


I have played a lot as well. I haven't counted any hours to be honest, but I'm using the BKGA since I have first found it and win many battles. You know the game, it all has to do with timing. A well-timed strike with that beastly weapon can cleave a great portion of health from the opponent's bar, which usually results in them running away and a sudden change of strategy=> move in for the kill.



This, I stole from grandpa...It's called soap.

kabamarutr on 05 November 2013
Soriku said:
kabamarutr said:

We don't really disagree here. I just believe that giving more options to a player is generally a good thing, even if they are not of that much importance in-game. You think - if I have understood correctly - that since S-scaled (I'll follow your term :P) are not that much more effective than A-scaled ones, they should as well be omitted from the game. 

Why not then strike them all out and keep the A-scaled ones as top? Why did they put the Moonlight Greatsword in the first place? Agreed, I do much more damage with BKGA than with MG, although I'm currently at 80 Strength, 80 Intellingence. With rough calculations, I figured  that MG will never catch up.


I didn't say S-scaled weapons should be omitted, but putting it this way, if someone with A weapon and someone with an S weapon fought, the win would not be determined by their weapon's scaling. So my point is that there's a good variety of weapons for people to choose from so as long as you don't worry too much about the scaling. Obviously a C or D weapon isn't going to do much for you, but between A and S there are many other factors to take into consideration for a PvP win, and I don't think people who use A-scaled weapons are necessarily at a disadvantage at all.

I agree. My point has nothing to do with advantages or disadvantages. I only want to point out that Demon's offers greater variety than Dark, in this specific aspect.



This, I stole from grandpa...It's called soap.

forevercloud3000 on 05 November 2013
Kane1389 said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Kane1389 said:
kabamarutr said:
Kane1389 said:
No one could possibly make an objective argument as to why Demon's Souls is any way, shape or form better than Dark Souls.


No one.


Now that my turn is up, I shall offer an aspect in which I believe the Demn's game is somewhat better. Mind you, I'm a big fan of the genre, having invested hundred's of hours on both (just like you) with 4 or more playthroughs in each.

So, the weapons ' upgrading and general choice of play is more free on the first game. This is due to the fact that there are more "S" factored weapons than one can find in Dark Souls. This brings variety and freedom of choice. One can build dexterity and can still cleave with mega-amounts of damage, just using a simple "hiltless". Hell, you can even build luck and have a monstrous attack with the "blueblood sword". ...And the most "unique" of it all, you have weapons that exact damage based on character tendency. Pure white or pure black work perfectly with the "Northern Regalia".

On Dark Souls, on the other hand, choices are limited. Sooner or later, you understand that the Black Knight set is the only option. That's why I guess we saw so many players wielding the Black Knight Great Axe in the early days of the game. If I am not mistaken, there has been several updates that brought balance to the choice of melee attacking, but is still not just as free as Demon's was.

The above does not mean that one game is better than the other. A sensible thing, since it wouldn't be enough to judge a game, but it is one aspect in which - and quite objectively - the first game is better than the other.

If I may add, the World Tendency system was more to my liking as it added variety. I especially enjoyed events, like Black Event (during Black Friday week) or White Event (during Christmas week) during which, the whole difficulty of the game was adjusted. But since it's based on "my liking", it can't be called "objective".

I agree that the upgarde system is more deep in DmS, altho i personally hated anything involving character tendency.

But what's the point of it, when in PVP it all comes down to who'll stunlock the other player first or lagstab him to oblivion. DkS offerrs a lot more in terms of strategy and combat variety. 

As a person who spent 600+ hours on PvP only, i can tell you that i never used any piece of Dark Knight armour. And BKGA is a terrible weapon. The only reason people used it before was due to backstab fishing and the insane damage it did with the hornet ring. Other than that, the weapon is slow, predictable and incredibly easy to parry. 

As far as i know, the only adjustments made in DkS regarding weapons were swing speed for great swords/ long swords and -10% damage reduction on elemental weapons.

Do you mean the point of Tendancy? Its mostly related to the story and World manipulation.

Character Tendancy effects how certain people react to you. Some will out right attack you if you are Pure White or Black.

World Tendency effects a few key things. White tendency means less/weaker enemies. Certain paths can be unlocked by Pure White. Pure Black bringes out more ferocious enemies, but they also give you like 2x the Souls and raises the rare drop rates exponentially. I find I typically am purposely turning the World to Black for this particular reason. Others you have to tread carefully as not to disturb the tendency which will be necessary for a few events.


I know what it does and what its for, the problem it, it never fucking worked for me. I was never able to get to Miralda the executioner in 1-1 despite meeting all the requirements. And not just that, i could never met scirvir or mephistopheles and i put hundreds of hours into the game. This also stoped me from killing any primeval demons as they also never spawned anywhere, and not to mention shit ton of weapons and equipment i missed because of this broken system. I hate it how so many important aspects of the game depend on such a broken system

If you play around with your timings(as in don't wait till you complete all the World Demons) you "should" be fine. I've missed Miralda too a few times because I didn't realize you have to do it before getting to a certain point. 

Switching between world tendencies is one of the easiest things in the game to do. Just keep dying in full body(not phantom) in a world and BOOM, Black tendency. This can be quickly done with a few ephemeral eyes on hand. I think 4 times is required to shift from pure white to black.

To shift to pure white you just dye in a different world, then go to the one you want to shift to white and slay some Arch Demons. Or kill Black Phantoms(i think?)

Character Tendency is easily shifted by either not killing any NPCs, or assassinating them. Or just invade ppl's games. Even if u lose you get blacker.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

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Wagram on 15 November 2013

I am disappoint son. You don't mess with the Soul's. ; ;