The thing is that it doesn't even matter, if they can be the most profitable then how many they can sell becomes irrelevant, it's like 3rd parties and a lot of people hate Nintendo for whatever reason, but they are healthy because they make good profits, Sony is clearly the worst in this category at the end of the 7th gen.

I am speaking about the base price of the consoles. When Sony and MS speak about losses/margins etc. they are talking about the officially released price.

We dont know what the margins is on the 450 bundle.

That helps because im talking about both models.  $400 is the entry fee but with a $50 increase it would be a $450 entry fee of course.

Anyways I would assume that the loss is about the same with the camera included though I dont know that for a fact.  

well bottom line we always come back at the same silly war.... on one side you have crazy gamers going all out on sales number.... abnd on the other side you have the companies and some people that care about what matters... which is revenue and even more net profit.... Today in my head the console war is still looking like that Nintendo Wii numero uno by far and for long while Microsoft Xbox 360 second and with still a good margin and that is inclucing a $3bn loss with the RRoD fiasco.... and Sony PS3 in third position and will be their for quiet some time....

to me it looks like between PS4 and Xbox One it will be the same... everything is pointing out at MS XB being more profitable than Sony PS4 even with PS4 leading the console war... which in the end is more relevant even for gamers that care mostly about sales number, because it means one business model is more viable than the other and therefor more logical to keep supporting in the long run by the concerned company...

Yep the loss would probably be the same. So do you not agree that pricing the $400 sku at $500 wouldnt make sense?

I'm sorry but your whole way of looking at this pricing situation seems very simplistic to me, no offense.

You can't just say that if Sony raised the price 50-100$ that they'd suddenly make more profit, sure if all they'd make money of was the console itself then that might be right but that really isn't the case.

Let's look at what Sony is really making money of with this console, there is the console itself then the accessories, games and subscriptions. Now I think it is very safe to assume that Sony would sell less consoles if they priced the console higher, so that already would mean less games, subscriptions and accessories sold. But even the guys that still buy the console, do you think the will buy the same amount of games with the PS4 if they've already paid 500$ for the console than they would've bought if the console was cheaper? I don't think they would.

We could also go into how Sony would probably need to pack in more with the console if they sold it at a higher price and how economies of scale would come into play since Sony would probably produce less because of lowered demand, thus possibly raising the average cost of producing a PS4, but that would all be very speculative.

Fact is, just raising the price of a product like the PS4 and expecting bigger profits is really discounting alot of other factors that come in play with these consoles

I did not say that they would or would not make more money that way.  I said what Selnor said made sense.  In reality we do not know which way would make more money than the other but if the past is any indication both Xbox and Playstation has lost more money than they have brought in in early years do to taking a loss on the console.

However Sony said this time around it is a small loss which could mean that one or two games could put them in the green again.  As I really do not know the loss that they are taking other than "small" i cant comment on how much they need to sell afterwards or whether it is smart or not.

There is perks of being sold at a loss but it is also a gamble in other words.  It is always ideal to make a profit immediately rather than lossing millions and having to gain it back.  

Read my comment above.  Though in short I will say that what sony is doing is not dumb for what theyre doing but what i was originally saying is it is always preferred to make a profit immediately rather than losing millions and having to gain it back.  Which is why what selnor said makes sense, though i never said i agreed with making it a higher price either.

Microsoft makes a shit load of money? What else is new?

Selling at a profit does make sense overcourse. But not given the real life situation. You cant make a statement like that in isolation of the state of industry, competition and environment that you in.