By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft - Including Kinect With Every Xbox One Is A Smart Move By Microsoft

Xenostar on 10 October 2013
landguy1 said:
Xenostar said:
landguy1 said:
Xenostar said:
Zappykins said:

It's not really the same.  The Xbox 360 was designed to work without a hard drive - they were still relatively pricey back then.  And ALL games (until the last year when it was loosened with Halo4 and GTAV) were required to be able to run on the DVD alone.

Every command is designed to work with voice on the Xbox One.  And this is a good improvement.  As I can do 99% of browsing and app with my voice, but the rare thing that pops up where I need a controller is annoying.  As I am often doing things, working, moving around and don’t have my hands free.

With all due respect, since you seem to dismiss Kinect so much, I have to ask, then why are you always in the threads? Why not just laugh with you see one and think "ha ha, those XBoners are going to be so miserable. tee hee"

 

I know you think it will flop.  So let it flop if that is what is going to happen.  You can not make it flop by posting, 'It's useless and will flop.' The postings makes it looks like the fear is if it does succeed, it will succeed big.

 

 

Also, if you would like to come over and play with my Xbox 360 and Kinect I would be happy to show you some fun things.  I think there is much you don’t even realize it can do. 

Oh, and here is some Ice Cream for you; I hope you like green tea:

 


X1 is designed to work without kinect, you can unplug it completley its launching in countries that dont support there languages, and i will guarantee you flag ship titles like halo will work without kinect, they didnt work without a hard drive!

I dismiss Kinect because i like games, i want to play Titan Fall, the next Gears of war and so on. These titles wont be any better for kinect they just make the console more expensive for me. 

Kinect is a peripheral it is not X1. It does minor gimmiks in games i dont want and it does menu navigation that im sure i will cope using a pad for instead, ive been doing it for 30 years with a pad, it might be easier to launch a game with kinect BUT i can cope with pressing A on the Pad, i will have to be holding the pad to play the game anyway. 

I am very interested in how people can come to the conclusion that the XB1 has been designed to work without the Kinect.  Just like my car was designed to work without the instrument panel working.  Sure, I can turn on the car and drive it to where I am going.  I might get a speeding ticket or run out of gas, but it will still do it's primary function.  So, you are right, the XB1 is capable of not using the Kinect. 

Based on your interest in only playing games, I suggest that you buy a 360 or PS3.  Both the PS4 and XB1 are way overpowered and capable to just play games.  Lots of wasted capabilities that you needn't pay for.  They are also much cheaper, and that seems be a driving factor in your determination.

Unfortunately for you, you find the purpose of the design of XB1 to be a gimmick and useless to you.  If you feel you must play next gen games, get a PS4 and you won't have as much unneeded capabilities.


im stunned you cant get your head rounnd it, your example is terrible, theres is no major function on the Xone that cant be accessed without kinect.

I want to play the next gen games including the exclusives, im getting a ps4 first as its cheaper and more than likley will have the better versions of multiplats in terms of performance, but i do want an XOne for its exclusives down the line.

Body motion tracking wont play any part in the types of games i like to play. Voice control will never take off mainstream in games certainly not this gen, too many languages and accents to support so devs will never risk doing anything major on that. 

You make me laugh that you even suggest there over powered for games, there is NOTHING not a single thing that they will ever run that will require more power than the games running on them.

So instead of the worlds worst analogies try listing actual features that GAMERS will miss by not plugging in there kinects.

Don't assume that i don't understand your point just because i disagree with you.  I think you need to try to get your head around that.

If my analogy is so bad, give me an axample of something you can't do in your car that the instrument panel stops you from doing?  If you understood the analogy, then you wouldn't have said it it was bad.  No one is ever going to say that the XB1 can't be operated without Kinect.  My analogy clearly states that a car can be driven without an instrument panel.  Like the Kinect does to the XB1, the instrument panel adds functionality and convenience to the car.  I drive my car all the time without ever looking at the instrument panel without any problems.  You can use the XB1 without the Kinect and have no problems.  The Kinect is a feature of the XB1, not just an accessory.  If you don't want the kinect, don't get the XB1.  You aren't demanding that Sony remove the hardware associated with the move technology are you?  Have you demanded that SOny removes the software too?  How about either the ethernet jack/wifi(whichever you deem useless)?  What about the 8 gigs of ram(wasn't really needed yet)? 

What you really want is a console with only the parts that fit YOU.  The PS4 and XB1 are designed to play games.  They are both designed to do many other things too.  What you want is to make blanket statements(see bolded in your comment) about your particular needs as if they fit everyone.  What's funny is that how many people said the same BS back when the PS2 launched.  "why can't it be cheaper?" or  "It's cheaper if it didn't have DVD"  Then the PS3 came out and the same BS "why can't it be cheaper?" or "It's cheaper if it didn't have bluray".  The designers of the systems aren't just looking at the ability to play games, as the hardware to do so now enables them to create whole new capabilities by putting a few more things built in from the word go.  No one is telling you to like every feature on each gaming system, that's why there are 3 main consoles to choose from. Pick the one that fits you.  Your the one who wants all of the games from every console(me too), then live with the features that have no interest to you.

The people complaining about the Kinect part of XB1 need to get their head around the fact that it was a design choice to make that part of the system.

 

The things you suggest removing are pretty damn vital, an extremley expensive peripheral that has almost no functions in games is not vital.

If you get my point of view, why cant you get that a kinectless XOne is easily a possibility.

Being able to see your speedo is integral to not breaking the law, seeing your fuel gauge is integral to not breaking down, again i ask whats the integral part of having kinect when it comes to playing games. 

If it never went kinectless i would still get one eventually, but wed be talking much further down the line than if they offered a cheaper model without it sooner. 



Around the Network
phinch1 on 11 October 2013
kowenicki said:
phinch1 said:
selnor1983 said:
phinch1 said:
selnor1983 said:
phinch1 said:
its a good move, for micorsoft, not for me, I dont want the dam camera, if i want a xbone im being forced to buy the perhiperal.......I would never! use it so as the consumer its not giving me personally any benifit, for those who want it, yes its great

Its not a Peripheral if its part of Xbox One.

Same way Wii Nunchuck wasnt a peripheral.

Its cool if you dont want to by into Xbox One ( everyone forgets its called One because its trying to be more than a games machine ).

But Kinect 2.0 is Xbox One.

do i need that camera to play gta/call of duty? in what way does that benifit me playing those games, its doesnt, it isnt needed, its a perhiperal, if i was into games that involved a camera, or i wanted to skypre, then sure id need it and then go buy the perhiperal (optionally).....but I dont want/need it, so why do i have to purchase the console at a higer price because they want me to have it, its not a nessecity

What logic is that?

Do you need Wii Nunchuck to play or Wii U tablet to play Mass Effect 3, Batman, etc etc. If I wanted to play touch or wave gaming Id have bought it for my Wii/ Wii U seperately.

See the logic here?

A peripheral is an after thought idea which is an add on.

Xbox One is as it is. Kinect 2.0 is not an add on and not a peripheral.

Xbox One is not Xbox 360 or PS3.


and thats why they have lost a sale from me, aaaaand many others

Which franchises that you played on your 360 will you miss on the ONE?

left 4 dead.....2 in particular



Drakester on 11 October 2013

Honestly other than skype functionality it really is pointless, and even then, my tv can skype so I have no need for it. Id prefer M$ to not force it onto consumers and be more proactive like Sony however I believe M$ have plans for Kinect in the future. But with all things M$ never believe them untill its actually announced



Pemalite on 11 October 2013
Drakester said:
Id prefer M$ to not force it onto consumers and be more proactive like Sony however I believe M$ have plans for Kinect in the future. But with all things M$ never believe them untill its actually announced


Kinect is great, when it's used properly in games.

Take Mass Effect 3 for instance with it's voice commands, it made the game just that little more engrossing as it sucked you farther into the gameplay.
You're not merely just pressing buttons, you're speaking at the the game too.

Granted when you get games like Fable: The Journy, that's a prime example of how not to use Kinect.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

chris0409 on 11 October 2013
petroleo said:
mmm adding 100 bucks more cause of a device that millions of users didn't ask and don't like ?, is really hard to believe that was a wise move. :/

Million others may want it, Kinect sales are strong you know. And people don't have to see it like you do, 100 more for this and that game/feature/experience/etc, it's a matter of opinion.

I don't think the Xbox One will do better than the PS4, but it will do good, even though it's 100 bucks more, even though it has a device "that nobody wants". I think Kinect is great, it's one of the reasons I consider paying 100 bucks more.



Around the Network
landguy1 on 11 October 2013
Xenostar said:

The things you suggest removing are pretty damn vital, an extremley expensive peripheral that has almost no functions in games is not vital.

If you get my point of view, why cant you get that a kinectless XOne is easily a possibility.

Being able to see your speedo is integral to not breaking the law, seeing your fuel gauge is integral to not breaking down, again i ask whats the integral part of having kinect when it comes to playing games. 

If it never went kinectless i would still get one eventually, but wed be talking much further down the line than if they offered a cheaper model without it sooner. 

Like I said, I understand the want for a simple game machine. 

This isn't some analogy, this is my own experience.  It would be nice to be able to buy a tablet that doesn't have cameras and speakers and gyroscopes and extra memory that I don't need to reduce the price.  I like to use my ipad to surf the net.  That's it.  No gaming, no watching movies, no skyping.  Just a really high end/sharp image screen and really low weight - that's all I need.  There are a number of cheap tablets, but they generally have really poor screens and really slow processors that seem to make the internet slow and they are heavy.  How does this relate to your want for a gaming system?  It's the same thing, if I want that great screen(the most important feature to me), I have to buy a more expensive tablet.  I get a whole bunch of other features that I amy end up using because they are there, but not because that's what I want. 

The truth is, if you want to play the games/exclusives that come to XB1, then you need to make a choice.  It's not about Kinect, it's about price.  Either you want to buy the XB1 for $500 or you don't.  What you and many others have decided is that you personally do need or want a particular feature of the XB1.  A number of people believe that because you don't like one particular feature, M$ is somehow screwing them by not providing a different console catered to just their needs.  It's easy for the few people that frequent these threads to actually think they are representative of a large part of the marketplace.  The reality is that we only represent 10-15% of the now very large gaming community. 



Xenostar on 11 October 2013
landguy1 said:
Xenostar said:

The things you suggest removing are pretty damn vital, an extremley expensive peripheral that has almost no functions in games is not vital.

If you get my point of view, why cant you get that a kinectless XOne is easily a possibility.

Being able to see your speedo is integral to not breaking the law, seeing your fuel gauge is integral to not breaking down, again i ask whats the integral part of having kinect when it comes to playing games. 

If it never went kinectless i would still get one eventually, but wed be talking much further down the line than if they offered a cheaper model without it sooner. 

Like I said, I understand the want for a simple game machine. 

This isn't some analogy, this is my own experience.  It would be nice to be able to buy a tablet that doesn't have cameras and speakers and gyroscopes and extra memory that I don't need to reduce the price.  I like to use my ipad to surf the net.  That's it.  No gaming, no watching movies, no skyping.  Just a really high end/sharp image screen and really low weight - that's all I need.  There are a number of cheap tablets, but they generally have really poor screens and really slow processors that seem to make the internet slow and they are heavy.  How does this relate to your want for a gaming system?  It's the same thing, if I want that great screen(the most important feature to me), I have to buy a more expensive tablet.  I get a whole bunch of other features that I amy end up using because they are there, but not because that's what I want. 

The truth is, if you want to play the games/exclusives that come to XB1, then you need to make a choice.  It's not about Kinect, it's about price.  Either you want to buy the XB1 for $500 or you don't.  What you and many others have decided is that you personally do need or want a particular feature of the XB1.  A number of people believe that because you don't like one particular feature, M$ is somehow screwing them by not providing a different console catered to just their needs.  It's easy for the few people that frequent these threads to actually think they are representative of a large part of the marketplace.  The reality is that we only represent 10-15% of the now very large gaming community. 


Yeah some good points.

I dont feel like im being screwed, as im clever enough not to buy something if i feel its just to expensive for me, the current price is clearly just to high to play a few exclusive games. So weather it comes down in price by just time passing or a budget sku being released i'm happy enough to wait i have other options right now. 

I just dont agree with the OP that its a smart move, i think they would sell alot more if there was a cheaper SKU on offer, after the initial launch shortages obviously. And i dont think it will negativley effect the X1 by doing so. Kinect will not be integral to games it might be for the small amount of first party games if MS REALLY wanted it to but i dont think they will, but it will never be for the 95% of the games that are the multplatform games as XOne will only be a small share of the total market.

And for those that want its other features for its not gaming stuff im sure would still be happy enough to pay the premium for the camera, or just buy the premium bundle.

Unlike Gyros and extra memory in tablets, Kinect is a really easy part to sell as an upgradeable option.



Machiavellian on 11 October 2013

My personal opinion is that MS must sell you kinect and the X1 as a complete unit because today that's exactly what they are. There is no forcing Kinect on gamers, instead the X1 and Kinect are a unit just like the controller, Blu-ray drive, network port, wireless nic card and other parts that make up the console. If there is something about the design of the X1 that people do not want then they have the option to not purchase it. The reason Kinect is not an option is because MS is building support for the device throughout the whole system. One of the big problems with Kinect 1.0 on the 360 is that you could use some of its features some of the time but not all of the time.

Case in point would be the voice navigation. I can say Xbox "Sherlock Homes" and it would find all occurrences of Sherlock Holmes, games, TV and Movies. (this is great). But from there using voice to pick the item you want now becomes a problem and if you go to one of the Apps, voice work in some parts but not in all. Navigating menus is the same, voice will work up to a point then there isn't support.

In order to make voice navigation work is to have it so integrated that there is no part of the system where it cannot be used. This takes a commitment and resources that must just work in order to be successful. The same situation for gesture support. MS is putting a lot of resources to make voice navigation and gesture support as seamless pieces to the X1 where they work all the time in all situations. Its even rumored that MS will be bring out their Watson/Siri AI next year. I will not get into how these systems work today but I will say that having an AI that just does what you tell it to could be very powerful if done correctly. Currently Watson from IBM is right there or pretty close.

I believe what will make Kinect more a success than the PSeye is the difference in commitment between MS and Sony. MS has included hardware to make using Kinect Free for developers in games and outside of games. They have bet the farm that Kinect is worth the extra price for the X1 and they are not looking at today's numbers but years from now. MS seems to be continuing to add function and value to the Kinect as a all around device that fits into everyone daily lifestyle. MS route is the more risky path because they must make Kinect a success and they must be able to convey the importance of the device.

Sony on the other hand still consider the PSeye as a add on. There is nothing wrong with this but the commitment for it's success is not really there.
Case in point would be voice navigation and gesture support. I remember when Sony stated their will be voice navigation and gesture support with the PSeye the next thing you know, Sony supporters came out in droves talking about how the PS4 does everything the X1 can. The problem with such thoughts is the commitment behind each implementation. Having voice navigation and gesture support is great to tick the box on the console but actually having it fully implemented throughout everything the console does is another. I only see gesture and voice support being very limited using the PSeye because its an afterthought. I will even suggest its more to tick off a feature then it is a serious attempt to make such features important or even useful. Will also suggest it will be like using Kinect 1.0 on the 360 but worst.



lolo on 11 October 2013

Yes, actually deliver fresh products!!!
no cheapass upgraded lazymans device



Machiavellian on 11 October 2013
Xenostar said:
landguy1 said:
Xenostar said:

The things you suggest removing are pretty damn vital, an extremley expensive peripheral that has almost no functions in games is not vital.

If you get my point of view, why cant you get that a kinectless XOne is easily a possibility.

Being able to see your speedo is integral to not breaking the law, seeing your fuel gauge is integral to not breaking down, again i ask whats the integral part of having kinect when it comes to playing games. 

If it never went kinectless i would still get one eventually, but wed be talking much further down the line than if they offered a cheaper model without it sooner. 

Like I said, I understand the want for a simple game machine. 

This isn't some analogy, this is my own experience.  It would be nice to be able to buy a tablet that doesn't have cameras and speakers and gyroscopes and extra memory that I don't need to reduce the price.  I like to use my ipad to surf the net.  That's it.  No gaming, no watching movies, no skyping.  Just a really high end/sharp image screen and really low weight - that's all I need.  There are a number of cheap tablets, but they generally have really poor screens and really slow processors that seem to make the internet slow and they are heavy.  How does this relate to your want for a gaming system?  It's the same thing, if I want that great screen(the most important feature to me), I have to buy a more expensive tablet.  I get a whole bunch of other features that I amy end up using because they are there, but not because that's what I want. 

The truth is, if you want to play the games/exclusives that come to XB1, then you need to make a choice.  It's not about Kinect, it's about price.  Either you want to buy the XB1 for $500 or you don't.  What you and many others have decided is that you personally do need or want a particular feature of the XB1.  A number of people believe that because you don't like one particular feature, M$ is somehow screwing them by not providing a different console catered to just their needs.  It's easy for the few people that frequent these threads to actually think they are representative of a large part of the marketplace.  The reality is that we only represent 10-15% of the now very large gaming community. 


Yeah some good points.

I dont feel like im being screwed, as im clever enough not to buy something if i feel its just to expensive for me, the current price is clearly just to high to play a few exclusive games. So weather it comes down in price by just time passing or a budget sku being released i'm happy enough to wait i have other options right now. 

I just dont agree with the OP that its a smart move, i think they would sell alot more if there was a cheaper SKU on offer, after the initial launch shortages obviously. And i dont think it will negativley effect the X1 by doing so. Kinect will not be integral to games it might be for the small amount of first party games if MS REALLY wanted it to but i dont think they will, but it will never be for the 95% of the games that are the multplatform games as XOne will only be a small share of the total market.

And for those that want its other features for its not gaming stuff im sure would still be happy enough to pay the premium for the camera, or just buy the premium bundle.

Unlike Gyros and extra memory in tablets, Kinect is a really easy part to sell as an upgradeable option.

@ Bolded:  I believe MS is not looking to sell the most console at launch.  If that was the case, then they definitely would not have the Kinect as central to the X1.  Instead, MS must believe that they will be able to provide incentive to purchase the X1 because of Kinect througout the lifespan of the console.  This might not be so clear today but then again MS is not looking at just today but years down the line.  Its clear that MS want to integrate kinect throughout the entire console capabilities and they have plans to expand on those features.  I also believe its clear that Kinect is integral to the X1 beyond games.  This is why they do not want to separate the the X1 from Kinect.  

On the games side, its hard to get support for a device without the device being there for all developers.  On the features side, its hard to justify adding features and support if you are not sure everyone will have the opportunity to use them.  Even though MS took the  mandatory Kinect out of the system, people still having the device and nothing is stopping a person from just hooking it up if something comes out that is a feature they want.

I believe people are looking at the PSeye the same as kinect while MS is looking at Kinect totally different.  Gamers think of Kinect as an add on while MS think of Kinect like a DVD/Blu-ray drive, network port, controller etc.  MS think of Kinect as essential to the X1 like those other parts of the console.  Today, people would think MS crazy to not include a network port, wireless nic card, controller or even a physical disk drive.  There is a huge difference between focus between what MS has plans for Kinect then what Sony has plans for the PSeye.