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Forums - Nintendo - New Nintendo Direct incoming! Oct. 1, at 7 a.m. PT/10 a.m. ET

 

What are you hope for?

New games 80 25.97%
 
More info on known games 52 16.88%
 
WiiU update 53 17.21%
 
IWATA DROP THE BOMB 121 39.29%
 
Total:306
irstupid said:

I'm not trying to argue how things will be, I'm arguing you can't assume they will be one way or another.

We have no idea right now, so coming up with the worst possible thing is not helpful.  

I for one never got peoples desire for non-linear dungeons.  Would ocarin of time relaly have been any better if you could have done one dungeon before the other?  I don't see how. 

I certainly agree with you on the last note, but from my perspective the ideas you were throwing around were way worse than simply designing every dungeon around using a single item, haha.

The most straightforward way to voice my concern is to say that if the dungeons can be played in any order, then every dungeon might have to be the first dungeon. Imagine the Spirit Temple's difficulty lowered to Inside the Deku Tree or Dodongo's Cavern levels and you'll see what I'm getting at. They can kind of get around this by having an introductory dungeon at the start (like Hyrule Castle in ALTTP), but that just kind of sidesteps the issue. If every dungeon is on relatively equal footing, then you have no difficulty curve. Worse, if some dungeons are more difficult than others and you can do those first, you have a backwards difficulty curve on your hands. It's simple enough to scale the difficulty in an RPG or something, but Action/Adventure games are a little different and I don't expect Octoroks to get stronger just because you picked up a few heart containers.



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the_dengle said:
irstupid said:

I'm not trying to argue how things will be, I'm arguing you can't assume they will be one way or another.

We have no idea right now, so coming up with the worst possible thing is not helpful.  

I for one never got peoples desire for non-linear dungeons.  Would ocarin of time relaly have been any better if you could have done one dungeon before the other?  I don't see how. 

I certainly agree with you on the last note, but from my perspective the ideas you were throwing around were way worse than simply designing every dungeon around using a single item, haha.

The most straightforward way to voice my concern is to say that if the dungeons can be played in any order, then every dungeon might have to be the first dungeon. Imagine the Spirit Temple's difficulty lowered to Inside the Deku Tree or Dodongo's Cavern levels and you'll see what I'm getting at. They can kind of get around this by having an introductory dungeon at the start (like Hyrule Castle in ALTTP), but that just kind of sidesteps the issue. If every dungeon is on relatively equal footing, then you have no difficulty curve. Worse, if some dungeons are more difficult than others and you can do those first, you have a backwards difficulty curve on your hands. It's simple enough to scale the difficulty in an RPG or something, but Action/Adventure games are a little different and I don't expect Octoroks to get stronger just because you picked up a few heart containers.


Or each dungeon will be of varying difficulty so that there's a preferred route for new players, but plenty of flexibility for repeated playthroughs.



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
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F0X said:


Or each dungeon will be of varying difficulty so that there's a preferred route for new players, but plenty of flexibility for repeated playthroughs.

If the recommended order is telegraphed well enough and the 'flexibility' is only really for the sake of repeat playthroughs, it doesn't bother me as much. But I also don't see what's so great about sequence-breaking, and I don't know why Iwata and Aonuma are focusing so much on talking about that.



the_dengle said:
F0X said:


Or each dungeon will be of varying difficulty so that there's a preferred route for new players, but plenty of flexibility for repeated playthroughs.

If the recommended order is telegraphed well enough and the 'flexibility' is only really for the sake of repeat playthroughs, it doesn't bother me as much. But I also don't see what's so great about sequence-breaking, and I don't know why Iwata and Aonuma are focusing so much on talking about that.


Can't say for sure, but I think it means that players stuck on a certain dungeon could simply make progress elsewhere instead of repeatedly being frustrated.

If so, I'm on board.



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
WayForward Kickstarter is best kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236620800/shantae-half-genie-hero

It appears that the calendar detailed in the Japanese Direct completely skipped Stardust Amazones

If NoJ can't assume mature content, why don't they leaves those games to us Vita gamers instead of buying up exclusives they send to death just after?



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ryuzaki57 said:

It appears that the calendar detailed in the Japanese Direct completely skipped Stardust Amazones

If NoJ can't assume mature content, why don't they leaves those games to us Vita gamers instead of buying up exclusives they send to death just after?

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. 



ryuzaki57 said:

It appears that the calendar detailed in the Japanese Direct completely skipped Stardust Amazones

If NoJ can't assume mature content, why don't they leaves those games to us Vita gamers instead of buying up exclusives they send to death just after?

Because Metal Max 4's cover says this - 



Check out my Upcoming Wii U Games 2014 Thread

3DS Friend Code: 4553 - 9954 - 4854. Name - David

the_dengle said:
F0X said:


Or each dungeon will be of varying difficulty so that there's a preferred route for new players, but plenty of flexibility for repeated playthroughs.

If the recommended order is telegraphed well enough and the 'flexibility' is only really for the sake of repeat playthroughs, it doesn't bother me as much. But I also don't see what's so great about sequence-breaking, and I don't know why Iwata and Aonuma are focusing so much on talking about that.

I think part of your perspective may be from your age.  I'm assuming you didn't grow up on Zelda 1?  As someone a good decade older, I grew up on the original NES Zeldas and then Zelda 3 on SNES.  Especially with the first two the role of items were much different than in the modern 3D Zeldas.  In those games you didn't necessarily NEED an item to finish or enter a dungeon.  And the location of a dungeon wasn't obvious either.  You would wander the country side, find an old tree or a cave or something and check it out.  You might find that it was too tough, or that something would make it easier, but that was part of the excitement of exploration in Hyrule.  It wasn't on a linear structure.  And each level wasn't necessarily designed around an item like they have been lately.  You might find that the dungeon had enemies that were easier to kill with a boomerang or that you could get through a dark room much easier with a candle, but you could try without it.  There were exceptions, such as the dungeon that needed the raft to access or ladder to enter, but the world was for the most part open for you to explore and challenge as you saw fit.

Your assuming that with this new model that game design would be sacrificed, but I see it as the opposite. Instead of an obvious dungeon where you go in get a bow and arrow and then have to figure out a puzzle using it (hmm... a locked door...what should I do? Oh wait, I know, shoot an arrow at something!) perhaps they will create multiple ways to solve it.  Maybe some items make it easier, some tougher but in the end the choice is with the player to try and figure out for themselves.  That's what sandbox games should be about, and Zelda is the original sandbox game.



TheLastStarFighter said:
the_dengle said:
F0X said:


Or each dungeon will be of varying difficulty so that there's a preferred route for new players, but plenty of flexibility for repeated playthroughs.

If the recommended order is telegraphed well enough and the 'flexibility' is only really for the sake of repeat playthroughs, it doesn't bother me as much. But I also don't see what's so great about sequence-breaking, and I don't know why Iwata and Aonuma are focusing so much on talking about that.

I think part of your perspective may be from your age.  I'm assuming you didn't grow up on Zelda 1?  As someone a good decade older, I grew up on the original NES Zeldas and then Zelda 3 on SNES.  Especially with the first two the role of items were much different than in the modern 3D Zeldas.  In those games you didn't necessarily NEED an item to finish or enter a dungeon.  And the location of a dungeon wasn't obvious either.  You would wander the country side, find an old tree or a cave or something and check it out.  You might find that it was too tough, or that something would make it easier, but that was part of the excitement of exploration in Hyrule.  It wasn't on a linear structure.  And each level wasn't necessarily designed around an item like they have been lately.  You might find that the dungeon had enemies that were easier to kill with a boomerang or that you could get through a dark room much easier with a candle, but you could try without it.  There were exceptions, such as the dungeon that needed the raft to access or ladder to enter, but the world was for the most part open for you to explore and challenge as you saw fit.

Your assuming that with this new model that game design would be sacrificed, but I see it as the opposite. Instead of an obvious dungeon where you go in get a bow and arrow and then have to figure out a puzzle using it (hmm... a locked door...what should I do? Oh wait, I know, shoot an arrow at something!) perhaps they will create multiple ways to solve it.  Maybe some items make it easier, some tougher but in the end the choice is with the player to try and figure out for themselves.  That's what sandbox games should be about, and Zelda is the original sandbox game.

True.

Old zelda games:

*No handholding

*More experimantation

*More sandbox

*More non-linear

*In Medias Res

*Shitload of enemies on screen at the same time

*At times it was super intense 

This Zelda isn't an Aonuma-style Zelda. THIS Zelda is a Miyamoto-style Zelda. 



I l8ved it. Mario looks amazing so does Zelda.



Switch!!!