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Forums - Sales Discussion - Monster Hunter 4 outsold the Vita!

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People who believe that hardware sells software be...

Banished. 43 21.50%
 
Hanged by the penis until dead. 70 35.00%
 
Drawn. 8 4.00%
 
Quartered. 3 1.50%
 
Drawn AND quartered. 13 6.50%
 
Loved to death. 14 7.00%
 
Worshipped, because they're right! 49 24.50%
 
Total:200
walsufnir said:
007BondAgent said:
it also outsold the wii u


And WiiU is the younger system. Good comparison.

Isn't that the point. Comparing a game to hardware sales is a very stupid comparison. Thread over yo head.



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badgenome said:
Cheebee said:
Guys, NONE of you are getting a very important point:

a Vita MH4 would've been far less attractive to Capcom because it would've been (much) MORE EXPENSIVE to develop. They would have seen much less profit, even if it had sold the same amount.
I noticed this point is either completely overlooked or severely underestimated.

Even -if- they had made MH4 a Vita exclusive, they would need to sell much more copies to achieve the same profits. Think of the difference between the development budget of AAA Wii and AAA PS360 games. The 3DS-Vita situation would be very comparable, relatively-speaking.

On top of that development would have taken longer, too, so Japan would likely still be waiting (likely well into 2014, too).

That's not even taking into consideration all of Nintendo's bonuses, like publishing the game and whatnot. Clearly it's been a no-brainer for Capcom to go with 3DS over Vita, regardless of intall base.

It has been mentioned, actually, but it's not necessarily the case. It isn't as simple as, "This system is more powerful, therefore this system is much more expensive to develop for." If you spend more time trying to squeeze your game onto a lower spec system, then it can actually be more expensive than developing for a system with higher specs.

If they're creating the assets in HD (to be used later in MH4U for Wii U or something) and then scaling them down, I don't know why it would be significantly cheaper to develop on the 3DS. Or any cheaper, really.

Of course there are exceptions, but I think you're really grasping at straws here. A more powerful system doesn't equal higher dev-costs by default; that depends on the type of game -obviously-. Tetris on Vita would be cheap, and a 3DS GTA would be far more expensive, for example, yes.

Fact remains, a ground-up, full-fledged, AAA, fully-realized MH title the likes of MH4 on Vita would easily have been much more costly to develop than a ground-up 3DS version. One can always come up with 'what ifs', exceptions and best/worst-case scenarios, but in this case that just doesn't fly, no matter how it's spinned.



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Cheebee said:

Of course there are exceptions, but I think you're really grasping at straws here. A more powerful system doesn't equal higher dev-costs by default; that depends on the type of game -obviously-. Tetris on Vita would be cheap, and a 3DS GTA would be far more expensive, for example, yes.

Fact remains, a ground-up, full-fledged, AAA, fully-realized MH title the likes of MH4 on Vita would easily have been much more costly to develop than a ground-up 3DS version. One can always come up with 'what ifs', exceptions and best/worst-case scenarios, but in this case that just doesn't fly, no matter how it's spinned.

You are assuming that Capcom would have made some kind of crazy "we maxed out the Vita!" game instead of the same old reasonably budgeted Monster Hunter by numbers that they always make. It ain't grasping at straws to call that assumption into question.



Either this is a very elaborate troll thread or badgenome is at his pc upside down typing with his toes.

He never looked liked the type to be butthurt though but I guess it can affect anyone.



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badgenome said:



peachbuggy said:

Crystal ball and time machine are for point 2 as you well know.




Oh. Well, I don't need those to tell you that the biggest third party game in Japan will move hardware. How much is up for debate. That it would happen is not.



but to say it would do 3ds like numbers is massively hypothetical and also pretty unlikely even if the installed base doubled which again would still be largely guesswork.



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peachbuggy said:

but to say it would do 3ds like numbers is massively hypothetical and also pretty unlikely even if the installed base doubled which again would still be largely guesswork.

I never said the Vita would do 3DS like numbers. I said that Monster Hunter would do Monster Hunter like numbers.



The X360 as well.

Sorry Badgenome, I didn't read through the whole thread.



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badgenome said:
Kasz216 said:

Again though, that's only because you ascribe the PSP's qualties on to the PSP.

You keep talking about things we can't know for sure, but your whole premise is based on a huge assumption that I'd argue is largely unfounded.

Monsterhunter or no,  Vita was never going to be the PSP... once again, as shown by how it greatly underperformed PSP before Monsterhunter was a big franchise.

You keep trying to handwave that away, but there really isn't any handwaving of that away.   Even if your arguement is "They put their PSP's away until Monster Hunter came out"

that in no way gurantees those people who did that would purchase it again.

 

For example, when i got my 360, i pretty much never played it until I got culdcept saga.  Which I REALLY got into.   Would I buy the Xbone if it had a new Culdcept Saga game?   Hell no. 

 

You are ascribing phantom sales as if it should just be assumed they should exist, when all available data suggests that they wouldn't exist.

What data? And why would the Vita need to be another PSP for Monster Hunter to keep being Monster Hunter? I can see why it would be insane for Capcom to move the series to the Xbox (in Japan, anyway, because I think the 360 would have been well positioned to finally make MonHun accepted in the west) but simply releasing the franchise on the Vita as everyone initially expected would seem like a very low risk move because the obstacles to adoption for the Xbox and the Vita aren't the same.

What even are the obstacles for the Vita? Price? Sure, price is always an obstacle for anything. Every price drop is met by some sort of bounce. It can't hurt to move more software, either, but the more price sensitive a customer is, the less likely he is to buy his games new anyway. Form factor? I doubt it. It's essentially a PSP with a second stick and no crappy UMDs. I think the 3G version may be a whopping 10g heavier than the PSP-3000. Lack of compelling software? Most definitely. I think this is the major one. Monster Hunter wouldn't single handedly solve that problem nor would it single handedly make the Vita into a PSP, of course. But I don't think it has to. The Vita doesn't need to sell exactly 1:1 with the PSP for franchises to perform as well on it, surely. It only has to be acceptable to the franchise's audience.

I guess nothing is ever guaranteed. There's no guarantee that many of the millions of people who just bought GTA5 in droves won't turn up their noses at GTA6 whenever it turns up on the PS4/Xbone. But I have a good idea that they won't. It is a reliable system selling franchise that has been extremely well handled such that its drawing power remains intact, and the latest entry is being extremely well received - and not just from "journalists" of questionable integrity. While Capcom may be getting a little happy with the Super Turbo Arcade Edition EX rereleases and little social/mobile/puzzle game spinoffs lately, the same can actually be said about Monster Hunter.

But anyway, I don't assume it would have pushed out exactly the same numbers on the Vita at all. I just have the feeling it would have sold roughly the same, perhaps marginally less but definitely in the ballpark. That's not to say that Capcom made a bad move by any means. If they are adamant about getting the series to catch on in the west without moving it to home consoles, the 3DS is the only chance of that and Nintendo is certainly more of a partner for them than Sony has been.

Once again,  Vita sales pale in comparison to pre-monster hunter PSP sales.   That's a gurantee of customer loss.

Afterall a number of Monsterhunter owners are likely those who bought PSP's early and as you put it... "put them away" right?

 

They're going to make the same mistake for one franchise?  Here's another thing I think your missing.   Most people who owned a PSP, likely owned a DS.   Look at the sales numbers vs the population of Japan.   Why?  Well Playstation WAS on top of the world when the PSP came out... like you said.    It isn't anymore... (Well not for a few months) and after seeing what a dissapointment the PSP was to most people... why would they own both again?   (Me I liked the PSP, but this is the assumption you were going with.)

You are right that it's essentially the PSP.... and that's what the obstacle is.  It's the PSP without the advantages the PSP started with, and the negative feelings the PSP generally provided.  Along with less compelling software... even with Monster Hunter it would of had less projects focused on it then the PSP did.

PSP sales don't have to be 1 to 1, but they do have to be 1 to 1 among monster hunter fans more or less... and it's a gigantic assumption to assume it should be with essentially everything else falling around it.

If Monster Hunter really was that Popular... Capcom would just create their own handheld.



badgenome said:



peachbuggy said:

but to say it would do 3ds like numbers is massively hypothetical and also pretty unlikely even if the installed base doubled which again would still be largely guesswork.




I never said the Vita would do 3DS like numbers. I said that Monster Hunter would do Monster Hunter like numbers.

Not a chance of that happening though unless there was a massive hw boost over a sustained period of time, or unprecedented attach rates, both of which seem unlikely.



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Kasz216 said:

Once again,  Vita sales pale in comparison to pre-monster hunter PSP sales.   That's a gurantee of customer loss.

Afterall a number of Monsterhunter owners are likely those who bought PSP's early and as you put it... "put them away" right?

 

They're going to make the same mistake for one franchise?  Here's another thing I think your missing.   Most people who owned a PSP, likely owned a DS.   Look at the sales numbers vs the population of Japan.   Why?  Well Playstation WAS on top of the world when the PSP came out... like you said.    It isn't anymore... (Well not for a few months) and after seeing what a dissapointment the PSP was to most people... why would they own both again?   (Me I liked the PSP, but this is the assumption you were going with.)

You are right that it's essentially the PSP.... and that's what the obstacle is.  It's the PSP without the advantages the PSP started with, and the negative feelings the PSP generally provided.  Along with less compelling software... even with Monster Hunter it would of had less projects focused on it then the PSP did.

PSP sales don't have to be 1 to 1, but they do have to be 1 to 1 among monster hunter fans more or less... and it's a gigantic assumption to assume it should be with essentially everything else falling around it.

If Monster Hunter really was that Popular... Capcom would just create their own handheld.

That's a loss of customers for Sony, sure, but not really a loss of customers for this one Capcom franchise. There are many fewer potential customers on the 3DS right now than there were on the PSP when MHP3 came out, but MH4 still performed comparably at launch. That's due to the series' present strength, and it doesn't really matter because most 3DS owners just aren't really potential Monster Hunter fans anyway. Just like most PSP owners weren't. There are about 4-5 million people in Japan who will buy a new Monster Hunter game, and there's not really any room for growth beyond that without betraying everything that the game is. I think this is why they're making Gaist Crusher: it's Monster Hunter for people who don't like Monster Hunter.

I'm not sure how burned we can say people really felt by the PSP. Early adopters might have felt so way back when this happened, which is going on about a decade ago now. But with the way the PSP was regularly topping the charts in Japan for years thereafter? That doesn't really say, "We hate this system."

There are lots of reasons Capcom wouldn't just create its own handheld because they have one single powerful IP anymore than Activision is going to create a new console because they have COD. They are a software house, not a hardware developer. They barely even touch other people's handhelds nowadays. Even the 3DS isn't getting much from them. They do have this one game that still sells a ton on traditional portables and they'll ride that out while they can, but they clearly believe that mobile is the future.