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Forums - Sales Discussion - Monster Hunter 4 outsold the Vita!

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People who believe that hardware sells software be...

Banished. 43 21.50%
 
Hanged by the penis until dead. 70 35.00%
 
Drawn. 8 4.00%
 
Quartered. 3 1.50%
 
Drawn AND quartered. 13 6.50%
 
Loved to death. 14 7.00%
 
Worshipped, because they're right! 49 24.50%
 
Total:200
peachbuggy said:
Am i missing something here? How could Monster hunter possibly sell more on vita??? From what i understand, it sold more than the entire userbase of the vita. That would mean it would need to have an attach rate of over 100%! Even if the Vita userbase miraculously doubled due to ONE GAME then it would still need an attach rate of over 50%! I think some people need to get a grip of basic maths!

Sorry to break it to you, but your calculations are incorrect, as they do not take into account a very important factor: MOMENTUM.

Monster Hunter 4 being announced as an exclusive for 3ds was one of the biggest blows any system has received so far (that I can think of. Maybe equal to Final Fantasy 7 (?) skipping n64 and being released on psone exclusively). The psp did extremely well not only because of the people who bought monster hunter 3/unite, but the momentum that the psp got. Especially in Japan where people use their handhelds a lot in public (trains, buses) and schools, the psp got free advertising. People saw it as a cool item to have (just like the Wii/ Guitar Hero) thanks to word of mouth. Even if they weren't interested in Monster Hunter, they bought a psp because their friends did. Especially teenagers tend to act like that.  

Correct me if I'm wrong, but mh4 was announced as an exclusive even before the vita launched and on the day of its launch, a port of a mh game was released on 3ds. This destroyed any momentum or hype/excitement for the vita. Why buy a vita when you can buy a 3ds which has Mario, Pokemon AND Monster Hunter. Even people who were not interested in any of those titles, suddendly thought lowly of the vita. It got the "it has no games" reputation and the sales plummeted. 

It is possible that had MH been announced as an exclusive for psvita, the psvita would have much better than now and the 3ds far less (though still ahead comfortably). Yes, it's all speculation and we will simply never know, but dismissing this situation as  "basic math" is silly to say the least.



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naruball said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but mh4 was announced as an exclusive even before the vita launched and on the day of its launch, a port of a mh game was released on 3ds. This destroyed any momentum or hype/excitement for the vita. Why buy a vita when you can buy a 3ds which has Mario, Pokemon AND Monster Hunter. Even people who were not interested in any of those titles, suddendly thought lowly of the vita. It got the "it has no games" reputation and the sales plummeted.

I think that's a large part of what happened. Even if you don't care about Monster Hunter at all (like me!) it still matters a lot because the game that made the PSP has flown the coop, and that really changes your image of the whole product. Just like how consumers who didn't care about Final Fantasy had to take the PS1 more seriously because of it, either directly or indirectly since that kind of a thing is a also huge signal to other publishers and developers.

It's still baffling to me that Sony just sat there and let such a thing happen. They bothered to get all this feedback on what third parties wanted out of a handheld, but they didn't bother to actually sign any games. The thing about being dangerously reliant on third parties is that you have to make sure they're going to show up, but after the PS1 and PS2 I guess they just took it for granted that they would. Still, the PS3 should have been a wake up call. The PS3 had it bad enough without even really losing any games. It only had to share them with the 360. But at a certain point in the process Sony had to know that the Vita had nothing concrete... and they launched it anyway.



I'm more concerned with Japanese devs being ok with having sequels regress in production values purely to get it onto a platform with a higher install base or to cut development costs in general. I don't want to play Persona 5 on iOS.



Panama said:
I'm more concerned with Japanese devs being ok with having sequels regress in production values purely to get it onto a platform with a higher install base or to cut development costs in general. I don't want to play Persona 5 on iOS.





badgenome said:
Kasz216 said:

Once again,  Vita sales pale in comparison to pre-monster hunter PSP sales.   That's a gurantee of customer loss.

Afterall a number of Monsterhunter owners are likely those who bought PSP's early and as you put it... "put them away" right?

 

They're going to make the same mistake for one franchise?  Here's another thing I think your missing.   Most people who owned a PSP, likely owned a DS.   Look at the sales numbers vs the population of Japan.   Why?  Well Playstation WAS on top of the world when the PSP came out... like you said.    It isn't anymore... (Well not for a few months) and after seeing what a dissapointment the PSP was to most people... why would they own both again?   (Me I liked the PSP, but this is the assumption you were going with.)

You are right that it's essentially the PSP.... and that's what the obstacle is.  It's the PSP without the advantages the PSP started with, and the negative feelings the PSP generally provided.  Along with less compelling software... even with Monster Hunter it would of had less projects focused on it then the PSP did.

PSP sales don't have to be 1 to 1, but they do have to be 1 to 1 among monster hunter fans more or less... and it's a gigantic assumption to assume it should be with essentially everything else falling around it.

If Monster Hunter really was that Popular... Capcom would just create their own handheld.

That's a loss of customers for Sony, sure, but not really a loss of customers for this one Capcom franchise. There are many fewer potential customers on the 3DS right now than there were on the PSP when MHP3 came out, but MH4 still performed comparably at launch. That's due to the series' present strength, and it doesn't really matter because most 3DS owners just aren't really potential Monster Hunter fans anyway. Just like most PSP owners weren't. There are about 4-5 million people in Japan who will buy a new Monster Hunter game, and there's not really any room for growth beyond that without betraying everything that the game is. I think this is why they're making Gaist Crusher: it's Monster Hunter for people who don't like Monster Hunter.

I'm not sure how burned we can say people really felt by the PSP. Early adopters might have felt so way back when this happened, which is going on about a decade ago now. But with the way the PSP was regularly topping the charts in Japan for years thereafter? That doesn't really say, "We hate this system."

There are lots of reasons Capcom wouldn't just create its own handheld because they have one single powerful IP anymore than Activision is going to create a new console because they have COD. They are a software house, not a hardware developer. They barely even touch other people's handhelds nowadays. Even the 3DS isn't getting much from them. They do have this one game that still sells a ton on traditional portables and they'll ride that out while they can, but they clearly believe that mobile is the future.

Well first off, that's not true.   Capcom creates a lot of gaming hardware, just not hardware that's sold directly to consumers.

Secondly, a loss of customers for sony only logically means a loss of customers for Monster Hunter.  You can debate how many customers would be lost, but the fact that there would be a loss of customers is undeniable.

As for how burned people were by the PSP... Vita's sales speak to that compaired to what they were before PSP.  It's just that obvious and undeniable.

You keep wanting to assume that those monster hunter users would be in a different hypothetical box, but that's a highly suspect position considering the very size of the box.   I mean, you really think Vita sales would of more then doubled, and that nearly everyone who owned a PSP wanted Monster Hunter?  That's just ridiculious.



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Kasz216 said:

I mean, you really think Vita sales would of more then doubled, and that nearly everyone who owned a PSP wanted Monster Hunter?  That's just ridiculious.

Sorry, but I think we're at an end here. That is not even close to what I've said anywhere, and I can't keep repeating that the Vita doesn't need to sell the same 20 million units as the PSP for Monster Hunter to sell on it what Monster Hunter's going to sell anywhere. You think it does, but I disagree.

I do think it's absurd to say that the Vita tanked because people felt burned by the PSP. The 3DS initially tanked because it was overpriced and had no games, not because people weren't happy with the DS. The Wii U is tanking for similar reasons, not because people hated the Wii.

Edit: Since it came up, I looked out of curiosity and it seems Capcom last proprietary arcade hardware was released in 1996.



Panama said:
I'm more concerned with Japanese devs being ok with having sequels regress in production values purely to get it onto a platform with a higher install base or to cut development costs in general. I don't want to play Persona 5 on iOS.

How do you think Dragon Quest fans feel?



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

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outlawauron said:
Panama said:
I'm more concerned with Japanese devs being ok with having sequels regress in production values purely to get it onto a platform with a higher install base or to cut development costs in general. I don't want to play Persona 5 on iOS.

How do you think Dragon Quest fans feel?

Can't wait for that Breath of Fire 6!



badgenome said:
Kasz216 said:

I mean, you really think Vita sales would of more then doubled, and that nearly everyone who owned a PSP wanted Monster Hunter?  That's just ridiculious.

Sorry, but I think we're at an end here. That is not even close to what I've said anywhere, and I can't keep repeating that the Vita doesn't need to sell the same 20 million units as the PSP for Monster Hunter to sell on it what Monster Hunter's going to sell anywhere. You think it does, but I disagree.

I do think it's absurd to say that the Vita tanked because people felt burned by the PSP. The 3DS initially tanked because it was overpriced and had no games, not because people weren't happy with the DS. The Wii U is tanking for similar reasons, not because people hated the Wii.

Edit: Since it came up, I looked out of curiosity and it seems Capcom last proprietary arcade hardware was released in 1996.

That's the point though, you disagree.... but you're wrong.

Does it need to sell 20 million units?  No... but it needs to sell a hell of a lot closer to 20 million then it does 5 million the Vita has in sales now.

Attachment rates like you are talking about just don't exist outside of heavily bundled titles and launch titles.  (Though because of limited supply the launch titles have small numbers of sales.)

 

I mean, how much do you think the new port will do?  Will we see a sudden pickup of vita hardware starting next week?



Kasz216 said:

That's the point though, you disagree.... but you're wrong.

Does it need to sell 20 million units?  No... but it needs to sell a hell of a lot closer to 20 million then it does 5 million the Vita has in sales now.

Attachment rates like you are talking about just don't exist outside of heavily bundled titles and launch titles.  (Though because of limited supply the launch titles have small numbers of sales.)

I guess that's why I don't think it's so out there. The Vita is basically in a launch like state as it is. The audience isn't big enough or diverse enough that such a massive title would end up selling to only 10% of the install base or something like that. So if Monster Hunter fell out of the sky onto it tomorrow, you'd have a situation where it's poised to have launch like attach rates. And if Nintendo hadn't hilariously cut the Vita's balls off shortly before it launched, it wouldn't have to achieve that.

It wouldn't be the first time we've seen such a thing. A lot of the N64's catalog fits that bill, particularly Mario 64 which granted was a launch title but was never bundled and still ended up selling about 1/3 as many copies as the system itself by the time it was done. Ocarina of Time wasn't far off of that and interestingly is still the biggest selling Zelda title of all time despite being on one of Nintendo's worse selling systems. Nintendo losing general customers from the SNES to the N64 didn't result in a loss of customers for the Zelda franchise.

If the Wii U can revitalize itself later this year I'm interested to see what kind of attach rates Mario Kart, et al can pull.

Kasz216 said:

I mean, how much do you think the new port will do?  Will we see a sudden pickup of vita hardware starting next week?

Oh, Kasz. If you understood what it is you wouldn't ask that question.