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Forums - General Discussion - The Batman relevance argument.

mibuokami on 07 September 2013
pokoko said:

You can't use logic when talking about Superman. I hate that he's even in the same continuity with other superheroes, especially those like Batman who are at least in the same solar system as logic.

 On the other hand, Superman is inept. With his powers, he should have solved every problem in the world long ago. Also, a cynical and brilliant person like Batman would have contingency plans in place. No doubt that he's probably bought up as much kryptonite as he could find. If Superman acted first, however, Batman wouldn't have a prayer. Only in a situation where Batman could lay a trap could he possibly succeed--and then only because Superman is dumb.


You can't follow comic logic period.

Joker for example would be dead 10 times over no matter how many 'good lawyer' he has, no Jury / Judge would go for the insanity plea on a mass murderer of his level no matter how unhinged he is.

And as for Superman... seriously you telling me a man in a bat suit can stop this?




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richardhutnik on 07 September 2013
PDF said:
General consensus is that Batman can beat anyone given time.
No time, no plan, Batman can lose to just about everyone.

Batman is one of the few people who can defeat Superman as seen in Dark Knight Returns part 2. That doesn't mean he wins in a straight up fight or that Superman can't destroy him whenever he wants. Just proves Batman is capable of beating him.

Pretext is important in this situation

Batman's major power is being prepared, so it isn't surprising.  That, with his wealth, makes for a difference.  But someone people are so gungho about Batman, they just don't bother to figure any context/pretext into what they consider.  They just want Batman to beat everyone.



richardhutnik on 07 September 2013
Bristow9091 said:
Well, obviously Superman wins no contest in terms of powers, however... Batman from the Flashpoint series is fucking brilliant, Thomas Wayne, badass.

Not that he'd be able to kill Superman either, but y'know...

I did see Flashpoint Paradox via a Redbox rental, and I would agree with you there on it.  I wonder if the comic series shows how what The Flash did made a mess out of everything.  The DVD didn't do this.



SnakeDrake on 07 September 2013

Well batman is the go to guy with deep pockets. Its not like Superman can build the watch tower with a reporters salary.



 

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NYANKS on 07 September 2013
richardhutnik said:
NYANKS said:

Superman to me is as boring as things get. His power levels change drastically based on whoever is writing, whatever was written first isn't necessarily what should be followed. There would be no plot for him at all if he was literally just like God, flying so fast around the earth that he turns back time and such.

Superman isn't even the most powerful being in the DC Universe.  One character that has an overpowering issue is The Spectre:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_(comics)

He has failed to be able to consistently get his own series, because no one knows how to prevent him from being overpowered.

Yeah, DC has a very complex mythos, and because it is so old and there is no central doctrine, writers contradict older writers. 

I don't think anyone knows who the strongest being is in DC, but I'd guess it would have to be the various versions of God that have creeped up in comics over the years, like The Presence, The Voice, The Hand and The Source.  They are literally the Gods of the universe, so they should be able to beat anyone be causing them to no longer exist lol.  But anyone who knows DC and Marvel through their super-complicated events knows that no one really knows.

Which is why I like Batman being smarter than Superman.  It makes better plots for both of them.  I think it should be the mainline canon from now on, and use side stories if you want to change it up.  But we'll see, right now that seems to be the case.



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attaboy on 07 September 2013

You guys aren't nearly geeky enough for me to be having this discussion.



attaboy on 07 September 2013
BasilZero said:
PDF said:
General consensus is that Batman can beat anyone given time.
No time, no plan, Batman can lose to just about everyone.

Batman is one of the few people who can defeat Superman as seen in Dark Knight Returns part 2. That doesn't mean he wins in a straight up fight or that Superman can't destroy him whenever he wants. Just proves Batman is capable of beating him.

Pretext is important in this situation


But wasnt Superman weakened cause of the bomb - Superman wasnt at full power/health when he fought Batman in that animated movie/comic.

Batman lucked out xD.

(Was a really good movie though).


The movie was based on the comic where the final fight was between Batman and Superman.  The comic had a sequel where Batman started off kicking Superman's ass (with a little help) before the story got under way.

 

There's been multiple times where Batman and Superman have faced off.  Sometimes Batman wins.  Sometimes, Superman wins.  Most of the time, Baman is just clever enough to stay alive while Superman comes to his senses or whatever.  Once, Superman beat Batman into a coma, though.  That's what caused Wonder Woman to kill Maxwell Lord (the guy controlling Superman).



S.T.A.G.E. on 07 September 2013
NYANKS said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
NYANKS said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


Superman can lift the earth, which means he could snap Goku's neck. LOL

Superman does win, but what's insane is that both of their power levels are way higher (depending on the comic) than lifting the earth.  They're both Gods, but I guess Superman is god +1. 

And for the record, Batman is my favorite comic character lol.  I will always believe that he can breathe in space without help and beat Jesus at wine making.  He's just that good, just needs some prep time.  lmao


LOL Can't blame you for liking Batman. My top three favorite superheroes have masks:

1) Spawn

2)Wolverine

3)Batman



S.T.A.G.E. on 07 September 2013
richardhutnik said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

So a bunch of my friends are sitting down eating at a diner and they barely know very much about comic book characters, but we get into it. I, myself, have very decent knowledge of comics which I believe is a little bit better than my friends because I used to read comics as a child and I've seen the JLA and everything and know the characters powers. They just know that Batman is f'n awesome. I agree, he's the best of human potential but his power is just being marketed to them, not what has been proven. The JLA technically doesn't need Batman. Batmans only true role is playing as a tactician. There were like eight of them and they even got the waitress to argue their point with me that Batman can kick Supermans ass. I just said, wow.....you watch too many movies (LOL). Most of my friends off the net aren't very nerdy unless you're talking anime, thats the extent it goes to. Most of them are jocks and pretty boys but they can beat a lot of people in sports trivia, but Comics? Nope. 

People also have argued that Batman would kick Captain America's ass, in an arena, mano-on-mano.  I said it could possibly happen if Batman were given time to prepare, with proper gadgets, but individuals argued that even without this Batma would kick Captain America's ass.  So yes, Batman has been sold like crazy to people.

It also helps to pit him up against the Avengers Movie version of Captain America. He can't shoot a gun for shit. Just Baterang the hell out of him.



S.T.A.G.E. on 07 September 2013
PDF said:
General consensus is that Batman can beat anyone given time.
No time, no plan, Batman can lose to just about everyone.

Batman is one of the few people who can defeat Superman as seen in Dark Knight Returns part 2. That doesn't mean he wins in a straight up fight or that Superman can't destroy him whenever he wants. Just proves Batman is capable of beating him.

Pretext is important in this situation


I don't believe that the Dark Knight Rises is considered cannon. Some of these animations that come out aren't cannon. Also, Superman and him went back and forth because of that suit and the Krytptonite, but he never hurt Superman outside of the Kyrptonite. Superman used his X-ray vision and tried to warn Batman before the end the he was going to have a heart attack and Superman hit him. They had a funeral for Batman and Superman could hear Bruce Waynes heart beat beneath the grave. He smiled and decided not to pursue him because that was his friend and he wasn't about to rat him out to that president.