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Forums - General - God doesn't prevent terrible things because?

 

Please choose wisely....

A. He can't 24 6.96%
 
B. He doesn't want to 86 24.93%
 
C. He causes them 22 6.38%
 
D. He doesn't exist. 213 61.74%
 
Total:345
The Fury said:

Presumably Cain would know what Cain had done - I was more alluding that maybe God was trying to get Cain to confess to some other person. But as I said, it's a stretch.

Sorry should have been more precise with that. It's the idea that admitting something to yourself can bring to light the reality of what you've done. Like when people say admitting you have a problem is the first step.


Interesting - it does concede that humans have a certain disunity of being, which could be an interesting point when discussing the soul. But OK, for the sake of this argument, I'm happy to admit that that is one possible explanation for this event that maintains God's omniscience.



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The Fury said:
dsgrue3 said:

You're saying god doesn't know which potential reality will occur. That's not knowing something, again negating omniscience.

Now we are going in circles, the contradictory nature of the subject has caused us into a loop. You say this, I say "It doesn't matter as God knows all possible outcomes." And it goes on and on and on... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUVs7vXNZiw

Oh well.

What are you talking about dude?

You made the claim, I put it into a graphic so we can be on the same page. There is absolutely no circularity involved. Either you respond to your own position or you admit your position is defeated. 

Don't give me this bullshit about circularity simply because you haven't followed the procession of events and/or logic involved.

attaboy said:
dsgrue3 said:

Lol, I love this.

We started talking about who decides what terrible is, to why necessary things can be terrible, and now to why terrible doesn't exist. Talk about the tedium of following nonsense...

When you lose an argument simply invoke the supernatural. Haha

Lol!  HAA!

Uh...I didn't get it.  I was just laughing because you were.

Hey, I'm not one of those bible guys.  I believe in a higher power but I don't think it was some magic guy and his son.  Then again, I also believe in aliens so do with that what you will.  I just say that the world has been here for a long time.  It had to come from somewhere, right?  As long as the world has been here, how long have people been here?  Our concepts of good, evil, and "terrible" don't mean shit.  We'll come, we'll go, and the world will continue to spin.  We can complain about why God allows "terrible" to happen but what's the point?  There's something bigger at work and we're just a small part of it.  Whatever or whomever our creator is, they've already put wheels in motion and we're just here for the ride.

Lol! HA HA! *random laughter--that's how it's done, right?*

Let start with your first assertion. "it had to come from somewhere" - no actually. It came from nowhere. No space at all. So argument one refuted.

"Our concepts of good, evil and 'terrible' don't mean shit." - well this is rather baffling as it's how we have courts and justice and law so I take particular issue with such a position. 

"Our creator" - not following at all. Are you unfamiliar with evolution? It does not require supernatural shenanigans for homo sapien sapiens to come into existence from this process. 

I actually am laughing at you when I type it. Just so you're aware.



Kyuu said:
Licence said:
Kyuu said:
Licence said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


I think thats a test, not really that he didn't know. You know kind of like how your girlfriend asks you a question when she knows the answer, but she really just wants to hear you say what shes hoping you'll say. 


If God was omniscient he would not need to do a test - he would know how the test goes beforehand!


If god was omniscient, you wouldn't know how his intellect and reasoning work.

Not necessarily true. Omniscience has an exact definition - knowing all things. This makes no preclusions on whether his intellect or reasoning is understandable (or not).

Even if god supposedly has a similar intelligence level to a human being. Knowing all things does indeed make him not fully understandable by us. As George Orwell says:

"There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them" According to this fact, there are other ideas that only an omniscient entity such as god could understand.

 

S.T.A.G.E could've used a better example though. Because "hope" somewhat verifies god's incomplete knowledge.

Hmmm, I'm not convinced. My computer has capabilities that are beyond my powers, yet I fully understand how it works. I imagine it is at least possible to understand how an omniscient entity reasons without being omniscient yourself.



This is about justice with the angels watching Satan challenged Gods authority. He did this when Satan deceived Eve and Adam. Satan told those 2 that by eating of the fruit their eyes would be open and they would be like a god and wouldn’t need their creator. If God killed Satan then that challenge of his ruler ship would be in question. So he allowed things to play out so God could prove satan a deceiver, a trial had to commence. So God has allowed things to play out without his help. He doesn’t want bad things to happen to individuals but this is about justice.
But their is hope



dsgrue3 said:

What are you talking about dude?

You made the claim, I put it into a graphic so we can be on the same page. There is absolutely no circularity involved. Either you respond to your own position or you admit your position is defeated. 

Don't give me this bullshit about circularity simply because you haven't followed the procession of events and/or logic involved.

You said the same thing twice and so did I. We were repeating ourselves. Let put it this way, I understand your point, you think that if God doesn't know which future will actually happen because of free will choice then he is not omniscient but what I'm saying is not that God doesn't know but that he doesn't care which future will happen. He knows of them all just doesn't care which one is true because in his mind they all are. Only the past is set.



Hmm, pie.

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he doesn't exist, duh.



The Fury said:
dsgrue3 said:

What are you talking about dude?

You made the claim, I put it into a graphic so we can be on the same page. There is absolutely no circularity involved. Either you respond to your own position or you admit your position is defeated. 

Don't give me this bullshit about circularity simply because you haven't followed the procession of events and/or logic involved.

You said the same thing twice and so did I. We were repeating ourselves. Let put it this way, I understand your point, you think that if God doesn't know which future will actually happen because of free will choice then he is not omniscient but what I'm saying is not that God doesn't know but that he doesn't care which future will happen. He knows of them all just doesn't care which one is true because in his mind they all are. Only the past is set.

?????

All of the potential realities are true? Uh what? There is only one reality that happens. Either he knows or he does not know. Which is it?



dsgrue3 said:
The Fury said:
dsgrue3 said:

You're saying god doesn't know which potential reality will occur. That's not knowing something, again negating omniscience.

Now we are going in circles, the contradictory nature of the subject has caused us into a loop. You say this, I say "It doesn't matter as God knows all possible outcomes." And it goes on and on and on... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUVs7vXNZiw

Oh well.

What are you talking about dude?

You made the claim, I put it into a graphic so we can be on the same page. There is absolutely no circularity involved. Either you respond to your own position or you admit your position is defeated. 

Don't give me this bullshit about circularity simply because you haven't followed the procession of events and/or logic involved.

attaboy said:
dsgrue3 said:

Lol, I love this.

We started talking about who decides what terrible is, to why necessary things can be terrible, and now to why terrible doesn't exist. Talk about the tedium of following nonsense...

When you lose an argument simply invoke the supernatural. Haha

Lol!  HAA!

Uh...I didn't get it.  I was just laughing because you were.

Hey, I'm not one of those bible guys.  I believe in a higher power but I don't think it was some magic guy and his son.  Then again, I also believe in aliens so do with that what you will.  I just say that the world has been here for a long time.  It had to come from somewhere, right?  As long as the world has been here, how long have people been here?  Our concepts of good, evil, and "terrible" don't mean shit.  We'll come, we'll go, and the world will continue to spin.  We can complain about why God allows "terrible" to happen but what's the point?  There's something bigger at work and we're just a small part of it.  Whatever or whomever our creator is, they've already put wheels in motion and we're just here for the ride.

Lol! HA HA! *random laughter--that's how it's done, right?*

Let start with your first assertion. "it had to come from somewhere" - no actually. It came from nowhere. No space at all. So argument one refuted.

"Our concepts of good, evil and 'terrible' don't mean shit." - well this is rather baffling as it's how we have courts and justice and law so I take particular issue with such a position. 

"Our creator" - not following at all. Are you unfamiliar with evolution? It does not require supernatural shenanigans for homo sapien sapiens to come into existence from this process. 

I actually am laughing at you when I type it. Just so you're aware.

Glad I can make you laugh!  Let's continue.


So, our systems of court, law, etc. Where did they come from (another rhetorical question.  Don't answer that.  You were going to answer that, wern't you!)?  Our laws aren't even uniform from country to country.  Tons of our laws are recent (ie: cyber laws) and even other laws like (ie: gay marriage) are changing as we speak.  Ask yourself why something that was illegal a decade ago is suddenly legal now?  It doesn't mean anything in the greater scheme.  They are just concepts. Our laws matter the way a sand castle matters to a little kid on the beach.  The ocean (my analogy for "God", here) doesn't give a damn about a kid's sand castle.  That castle may mean the world to the child but when the ocean has a purpose, that castle is going to get washed away.  Terrible, right?

So, regardless of what we think is terrible, when God has something that he wants to do, it doesn't matter if it's a kid's sand castle on the beach or New York City-- his will we be done.

Evolution.  I'd ask you to enlighten me on the subject except that I already believe in it.  I even believe that people have evolved ever so slightly in our lifetime.  It's like you're attempting to argue with me by telling me things I already agree with!  By "Our creator" I mean whatever being or force of nature or whatever created all of this.  Our creator is whatever put all of these wheels in motion.  Whatever layed the building blocks for evolution, whatever made the microbes that live in the sea, whatever killed the dinosaurs and evolved men from apes.

Lastly, you say everything came from nowhere.  Please educate me....if you can stop your uncontrollable laughter for just a moment.  That's not normal, by the way.



NobleTeam360 said:
trixiemafia86 said:
NobleTeam360 said:

Praying is just meant to get you through things. God will listen but he won't intervene. So in a sense praying is useless. (This is my opinion)

Lolzz

Was that supposed to be a rebuttal or did you just not have anything else worth saying?

Nothing worth saying... I just wanted to know what you thought.



Smartest nam evila

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Salnax said:
Another thing I don't understand? "Free Will." I like the idea, but I find it to be incompatible with the Bible. Especially Exodus 4:21.


Wow, thanks for the Exodus 4:21. 



Smartest nam evila

Current Platforms: HighendPC[rip]/PS4/PS3[rip]/Vita[rip]