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Forums - Gaming Discussion - A very good new article comparing Xbox One and PS4 post Xbox One GPU boost!

thismeintiel said:
People really need to stop using this 24% figure. It's from a BS article by Leadbetter. An article that was the final straw that got Digital Foundry banned on Gaf. He used a slightly better GPU than the PS4 has to represent the PS4 and a much better GPU than the Xbox One has to represent it. He than used the same speed RAM in both. So yea, a flawed comparison from the beginning, one that favors the Xbox One. The actual difference is going to be larger than 24%.

You know I keep hearing people in forums say this all the time but I do not here any developers saying this.  People in forums always debate about more this or that but people that actually have to code for it make different assertions.  I think no one truly knows if it will be 24% more or less because no one has trully invested into getting the most out of each system.



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DirtyP2002 said:
JoeTheBro said:
DirtyP2002 said:
VGC users know more than Carmack then!
The technical gap will be the smallest ever.

PS360 in comparison have WAY more differences than Xbox One and PS4 will have.

Last gen, there were discussions about "teh cell", something nobody had a clue about. Or the RAM 512MB vs 256MB + 256MB, or BluRay vs DVD9... The differences we are talking about now are tiny in comparison.

RAM is the same (yeah one is faster... SHOCKER)
CPU is the same
GPU is slightly different (Don't even try to make a big deal out of it)
input media is exactly the same
cloud computing (One supports it for certain games, the other one does not)

The machines are nearly identical and Carmack even said it.


Please don't spread BS if you don't know what you are talking about.

You are right about PS360 having more component differences, but what does that have to do with a difference in power? That's like saying a steam powered car and an electric car have almost the same top speed, therefor two gas cars must have the exact same top speed.

Luckily for us the two systems being so similar makes it pretty straight forward to see how large the gap is and which system is stronger. With previous gens each system had its strengths and weaknesses. PS3 had a super powerful CPU but it was a bitch to tap that performance. On top of that it had split RAM. The 360 had a great GPU and a single pool of RAM but its CPU had nothing on the theoretical power of the CELL. Each system had its relative strengths and weaknesses.

With Xbox One vs PS4 there is none of that. Same CPUs, same GPU architectures, same single pools of RAM, and a lot of the same part manufacturers. The only difference that isn't a black and white number is DDR3 + ESRAM vs GDDR5. This is the ONLY* power difference that is even close to being debatable. Everything else is PS4 is better, PS4 is better, PS4 is the same, PS4 is better**...

Of course there is the debate on how much better the PS4 will be in real world examples, but it will be bigger than the PS360 difference I can guarantee you that. If you care for some bet about this, just PM me. We can discuss specifics.

*Xbox One is believed to have a less taxing audio chip than PS4. It's also debatable yet most people ignore it since its effects on system performance are minimal.

**Xbox One has more transistors and a higher GPU clock than PS4, but those numbers are meaningless on their own.


to use this way to descirbe it:

Last gen, we had two cars with

different engine (CPU)
different tires (Input Media)
different wheel drive (GPU)
different gear drive (RAM)

and they had more or less the same top speed.

Now we have two cars with

same engine (CPU)
same tires (BluRay)
different wheel drive (GPU)
same gear drive (RAM)

and somehow we expect totally different results.

 

Anyway, todays games require bigger and better specs than ever before and to actually see a real difference the hardware-jump needs to be massive and not just 24%. Especially when developer make games to run on both systems.

My prediction is that the multiplat games on both systems will be almost identical this gen. Sure, the pixel counters will find something, but this won't matter overall.

No you are still very off.

Last gen

Battery at 12V verse steam at 260 degrees

Electric motor vs piston

Recharge vs refill

 

Which car is better? Pretty hard to tell until both are on the track racing. Could have identical performance, or could be laps apart.

 

This gen

12 cylinder vs 18 cylinder

13100 horsepower vs 18400 horsepower

5 Liter gas tank vs 6 Liter gas tank

 

Unlike previous gens these things are directly comparable! Just looking at my hypothetical cars with hilarious specs the difference is much more apparent than you act.



withdreday said:
JoeTheBro said:
This article is pretty poor actually. Lots of errors. Xbox one teraflop numbers have .02 added to them for some reason. Also they didn't know the ram is indeed "better" with this upclock. I stopped reading when they confused the FCC hz number for the cpu instead of for ram.

I think you stopped reading after they said the PS4 will blow the Xbox One out of the water Specswise. It's Ok, you can admit it.

If they had actually done a good job with the comparison, the difference between PS4 and Xbox One would have been greater but that's cool if you want to call me out.



DialgaMarine said:
I have to be a broken record here... I'm constantly hearing about how XBone has a whole plethora of features that the system can do that sets it apart from the PS4, but I still have yet to hear what they actually are... Can someone please, for the love of god, tell me?


It may be dangerous for MS to list features... when they talked about their revolutionary game sharing, angry gamers turned out in droves with torches and pitchforks to drive them back to the old model. People like the idea of new features, but on average lack the attention span to actually read a full description of anything. It's probably safer to mention all the cool features, but not actually go into detail about them, before angry consumers want them removed too.



DialgaMarine said:
I have to be a broken record here... I'm constantly hearing about how XBone has a whole plethora of features that the system can do that sets it apart from the PS4, but I still have yet to hear what they actually are... Can someone please, for the love of god, tell me?

Television(HDMI in). Cloud computing for in game (untested and PS4 can do it Cerny said).



 Go Team Venture! I still don't get the Wii, PS Move,  and Kinect.

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JoeTheBro said:
DirtyP2002 said:
JoeTheBro said:
DirtyP2002 said:
VGC users know more than Carmack then!
The technical gap will be the smallest ever.

PS360 in comparison have WAY more differences than Xbox One and PS4 will have.

Last gen, there were discussions about "teh cell", something nobody had a clue about. Or the RAM 512MB vs 256MB + 256MB, or BluRay vs DVD9... The differences we are talking about now are tiny in comparison.

RAM is the same (yeah one is faster... SHOCKER)
CPU is the same
GPU is slightly different (Don't even try to make a big deal out of it)
input media is exactly the same
cloud computing (One supports it for certain games, the other one does not)

The machines are nearly identical and Carmack even said it.


Please don't spread BS if you don't know what you are talking about.

You are right about PS360 having more component differences, but what does that have to do with a difference in power? That's like saying a steam powered car and an electric car have almost the same top speed, therefor two gas cars must have the exact same top speed.

Luckily for us the two systems being so similar makes it pretty straight forward to see how large the gap is and which system is stronger. With previous gens each system had its strengths and weaknesses. PS3 had a super powerful CPU but it was a bitch to tap that performance. On top of that it had split RAM. The 360 had a great GPU and a single pool of RAM but its CPU had nothing on the theoretical power of the CELL. Each system had its relative strengths and weaknesses.

With Xbox One vs PS4 there is none of that. Same CPUs, same GPU architectures, same single pools of RAM, and a lot of the same part manufacturers. The only difference that isn't a black and white number is DDR3 + ESRAM vs GDDR5. This is the ONLY* power difference that is even close to being debatable. Everything else is PS4 is better, PS4 is better, PS4 is the same, PS4 is better**...

Of course there is the debate on how much better the PS4 will be in real world examples, but it will be bigger than the PS360 difference I can guarantee you that. If you care for some bet about this, just PM me. We can discuss specifics.

*Xbox One is believed to have a less taxing audio chip than PS4. It's also debatable yet most people ignore it since its effects on system performance are minimal.

**Xbox One has more transistors and a higher GPU clock than PS4, but those numbers are meaningless on their own.


to use this way to descirbe it:

Last gen, we had two cars with

different engine (CPU)
different tires (Input Media)
different wheel drive (GPU)
different gear drive (RAM)

and they had more or less the same top speed.

Now we have two cars with

same engine (CPU)
same tires (BluRay)
different wheel drive (GPU)
same gear drive (RAM)

and somehow we expect totally different results.

 

Anyway, todays games require bigger and better specs than ever before and to actually see a real difference the hardware-jump needs to be massive and not just 24%. Especially when developer make games to run on both systems.

My prediction is that the multiplat games on both systems will be almost identical this gen. Sure, the pixel counters will find something, but this won't matter overall.

No you are still very off.

Last gen

Battery at 12V verse steam at 260 degrees

Electric motor vs piston

Recharge vs refill

 

Which car is better? Pretty hard to tell until both are on the track racing. Could have identical performance, or could be laps apart.

 

This gen

12 cylinder vs 18 cylinder

13100 horsepower vs 18400 horsepower

5 Liter gas tank vs 6 Liter gas tank

 

Unlike previous gens these things are directly comparable! Just looking at my hypothetical cars with hilarious specs the difference is much more apparent than you act.

we should only talk in metaphors from this point on.

The next gen games (2-3 years from now) will be very demanding. Heck Bioshock Infinite for PC for example recommends a system with 4 GB Memory and a HD Radeon 6950 already and in 3 years you will see games that will require much more than that. (I know PC specs vs console specs bla)

The technical gaps between the systems get bigger with every gen (Xbox One has 16 times the amount of ram of the Xbox 360 and the CPU is abot 6 times better, the GPU is 6 times better etc.) but the jump in visuals won't be as impressive as these number suggest, because we are getting to a point where a visual upgrade is very hard to achieve. And 24% difference are not enough to make games look significantly better.

Metaphor (inspired by your avatar):

It is like comparing Bill Gates wealth (PS4) to Warren Buffets wealth (Xbox One). Sure Bill Gates has 20 billion USD more than Buffet, but there is not much on earth that Warren Buffet could not afford, but Bill Gates can.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

ethomaz said:
DialgaMarine said:
I have to be a broken record here... I'm constantly hearing about how XBone has a whole plethora of features that the system can do that sets it apart from the PS4, but I still have yet to hear what they actually are... Can someone please, for the love of god, tell me?

The Infinite Power of the Cloud

And Kinect if you count it in the "pros" list.

 It's really not infinite when you think about it. Even if it were, only 1% of internet users across the world actually have the connection to use it. At best, you'll get slightly better textures in MP maps, but it won't increase the system's power tenfold like people seem to believe. 

People seem to forget that PS4 has the same cloud capabilities through Gakai, a better cloud at that. Sony just doesn't throw this info around all the time, because 1) it's a really stupid concept overall, and 2) they're actually confident about their console's hardware. It will be a nice little feature down the road, but not a necessitiy at launch like it seems to be with XBone.

I don't count Kinect anymore than PS Move, though I much prefer movie because it's not mandatory to own, and it doesn't watch me in my personal. 

I know my Playstation fanboyism seems somewhat prevalent in these comments, but I honestly would like to see the potential of XBone that sets it higher than PS4. I'm a gamer who buys gaming consoles, and the XBone seems to have completely abandoned that concept, while still offering little to nothing above the competition. What am I missing?





0331 Happiness is a belt-fed weapon

DirtyP2002 said:
JoeTheBro said:
DirtyP2002 said:

to use this way to descirbe it:

Last gen, we had two cars with

different engine (CPU)
different tires (Input Media)
different wheel drive (GPU)
different gear drive (RAM)

and they had more or less the same top speed.

Now we have two cars with

same engine (CPU)
same tires (BluRay)
different wheel drive (GPU)
same gear drive (RAM)

and somehow we expect totally different results.

 

Anyway, todays games require bigger and better specs than ever before and to actually see a real difference the hardware-jump needs to be massive and not just 24%. Especially when developer make games to run on both systems.

My prediction is that the multiplat games on both systems will be almost identical this gen. Sure, the pixel counters will find something, but this won't matter overall.

No you are still very off.

Last gen

Battery at 12V verse steam at 260 degrees

Electric motor vs piston

Recharge vs refill

 

Which car is better? Pretty hard to tell until both are on the track racing. Could have identical performance, or could be laps apart.

 

This gen

12 cylinder vs 18 cylinder

13100 horsepower vs 18400 horsepower

5 Liter gas tank vs 6 Liter gas tank

 

Unlike previous gens these things are directly comparable! Just looking at my hypothetical cars with hilarious specs the difference is much more apparent than you act.

we should only talk in metaphors from this point on.

The next gen games (2-3 years from now) will be very demanding. Heck Bioshock Infinite for PC for example recommends a system with 4 GB Memory and a HD Radeon 6950 already and in 3 years you will see games that will require much more than that. (I know PC specs vs console specs bla)

The technical gaps between the systems get bigger with every gen (Xbox One has 16 times the amount of ram of the Xbox 360 and the CPU is abot 6 times better, the GPU is 6 times better etc.) but the jump in visuals won't be as impressive as these number suggest, because we are getting to a point where a visual upgrade is very hard to achieve. And 24% difference are not enough to make games look significantly better.

Metaphor (inspired by your avatar):

It is like comparing Bill Gates wealth (PS4) to Warren Buffets wealth (Xbox One). Sure Bill Gates has 20 billion USD more than Buffet, but there is not much on earth that Warren Buffet could not afford, but Bill Gates can.

Diminishing returns are a very real thing.

An xbox one game having 60k polygons per character and the PS4 version having 90K polygons per character would not be noticeable under standard playing conditions, that's true. However, that isn't how this extra power should be used in the real world. Devs could simply have the PS4 version run at a locked 30 in full HD while the Xbox One version stutters at 900p.

Also at the start of every gen people bring up diminishing returns when they are underwhelmed with next gen capabilities. For decades they have been proven wrong. I understand you are mostly focused on the diminishing returns of the power gap but it also should be proven wrong again this gen.



jonathanalis said:
24% is smaller than the diference of ps2 and GC?

I don't think so.  The GC was much closers to the Xbox in performance - like 70 -85%. For reference the difference between the PS2 and the Xbox was that the Xbox was more than 100% more powerful.

So about 1/3 the difference between the PS2 and the GC.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

DirtyP2002 said:

we should only talk in metaphors from this point on.

The next gen games (2-3 years from now) will be very demanding. Heck Bioshock Infinite for PC for example recommends a system with 4 GB Memory and a HD Radeon 6950 already and in 3 years you will see games that will require much more than that. (I know PC specs vs console specs bla)

The technical gaps between the systems get bigger with every gen (Xbox One has 16 times the amount of ram of the Xbox 360 and the CPU is abot 6 times better, the GPU is 6 times better etc.) but the jump in visuals won't be as impressive as these number suggest, because we are getting to a point where a visual upgrade is very hard to achieve. And 24% difference are not enough to make games look significantly better.

Metaphor (inspired by your avatar):

It is like comparing Bill Gates wealth (PS4) to Warren Buffets wealth (Xbox One). Sure Bill Gates has 20 billion USD more than Buffet, but there is not much on earth that Warren Buffet could not afford, but Bill Gates can.

That is a really good analogy.  Both are so much more than the current systems, and arguing over the minute differences is more ideas than practical.  Noteworthy - I was even saying this when I was hoping the Xbox  would have 2.5 Tflops GPU that some developers asked for vs the 1.8 Tflops the Ps4 has - even that difference wouldn't be that noticeable.

Look at how good and how many graphic awards Halo 4 one on the 'old less powerful Xbox 360.'  DirectX 11 is a mature platform  that Microsoft is really good at tweaking it for performance. 

It's more about which platform offers you want you want.

PS  My die hard Sony friend sheepishly admitted he was using his Xbox 360 more and more for app and multimedia than his PS3 or PC.  (He games on all of them.)



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!