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Forums - Gaming Discussion - There isn't much marginal benefit in Nintendo buying Atlus.

Otakumegane said:

And SMT also reuses demons and spell animations. Some of the sprites in SMT are rips of Soul Hackers. Sequels reuse assets.

Still haven't answered my question. What makes you think that most Atlus games have a higher dev cost? At least FE:A used 3D models during actual battle and story cutscenes SMTIV uses all sprites, and the little 3D animation/models that are there is for dungeons. If SMTIV had such a big dev cost and effort put into it, then why is combat all 1st person sprite based?

Those GBA games you have there have better sprite work/animations than SMT.

I might not have answered the question as you would have liked me to, but I did answer your question.  The newest Fire Emblem does have better graphics than the previous portable titles, but as I've said in a previous post, and what you have seemed to ignore twice, these graphics are more than likely going to be used for the next 3-5 games. 

But for the answer you want to hear.  Yeah, SMT games reuse enemies, spell animations, etc.  I haven't played SMT4 yet, trying to finish what I'm playing before I get to it, but while I've seen demon's that reuse the Soul Hackers version, the demon's aren't static or hovering and have animations on their basic sprite.  The common spells that I've seen also don't look like any other version, although I haven't played Strange Journey either so there's always the possibility of using those spell animations.

What about when SMT3 came to the PS2 though.  Every single demon was rendered in full 3D.  Every demon was animated rather than a static 3D stance.  A demon that cast a spell would cast it differently than another while they had several different animations depending on what kind of physical attack they would use.  Some demons were different colored versions, but for the ones that weren't, or the ones that were and used a different weapon, that's a lot of time put into the game.  DDS and DDS2 reused a lot of demon's and spell effects from SMT Nocturne, but there are new demons and skills, all the characters have their own attacks and critical attacks, cast spells differently, and have different actions when using physical skills.

I know you're going to argue DDS reuses assets, the very reason I included it above, but as I stated prior, it's not about whether or not assets are reused.  It's that the Atlus titles seem to have larger budgets than the Fire Emblem games and they don't sell as much.  If you want to try and take the argument in a different direction then it's going to be a completely different argument which I'll just ignore.  It's clear that DDS2 has different gameplay mechanics than Nocturne outside of the press turn system, different dungeons, different looking characters, while there's a very good chance if you were to show a battlefield and the same class on each attacking, even some Fire Emblem fans might not know the difference.  SMT3 probably cost more in development than all the GBA Fire Emblem games combined.



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osed125 said:
Xxain said:
osed125 said:
Xxain said:

Nintendo has done almost nothing with Monolithsoft and that is a truly talented developer and given proper resources they could create something to rival FF.

Does Monolithsoft have been with Nintendo that long to make a lot of games? Don't know when Nintendo bought them but they made Xenobale which I imagine took all of their manpower and 'X' is probably the same. Those are pretty big games which take a lot of time and money to make. 

Or Xenoblade being named "best RPG of the generation" by a lot of gamers doesn't count for anything?


Your right, Xenoblade is a awesome JRPG. Why didnt Nintendo treat like that? We almost did not get to experience it.

And that's problem of Nintendo themselves and not what they are doing with Monolith. Nintendo let them do what they wanted (or at least I think they did).

Nintendo is a weird company, they published the game in Europe, but decided not to in the U.S. My personal theory is that Nintendo of America for some reason took waaaay to long to decide if they wanted to published the game in America or not, and by that time the game was already pirated to no end. Heck according to this the game was downloaded illegally nearly 1 million times in 2011, not really a huge incentive for Nintendo, and probably the reason why Xseed made a limited print of the game.

I think Xenobalde is one of the very very few cases where the illegal downloads are much higher than the actual sales.

Nintendo did publish Xenoblade in North America.

Xseed published The Last Story.  I think you got those two confused.



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noname2200 said:
morenoingrato said:
I want them to buy Atlus to piss of the Sony fanbase.


I agree with this line of reasoning!

 

Although financially, the idea doesn't really make sense. There are other, larger areas where Nintendo needs to shore up its resoures: niche titles like the ones Atlus produce would contribute, but likely not as effectively as other developers would. Depending on the acquisition price, it'd probably take too long for the investment to become worthwhile.

That said, if Sony is the one who's most likely to purchase them, I demand Nintendo step in instead. I want my Etrian Odyssey and Trauma Center games!

Index is looking for about $150 million in the asset sale for all of their properties.  Atlus is only part of that, although they have been characterized as one of their most valuable properties.  So it could be a good sized chunk of that.

Seems somewhat reasonable?  Maybe?  I don't know.  It would help to know how much money Atlus makes.



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Well written counter argument, Atlus games are very much about niche games though they are profitable they are hardly racking in big accounts of cash that some of the other Nintendo titles will be bringing in. I think Atlus would be a good company for someone like Koei to buy seen as they are always supporting all platforms and seem to have no console preference.



you take our Final Fantasy, we take your Persona (:<



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MohammadBadir said:

you take our Final Fantasy, we take your Persona (:<


You can have it back now. FFXIII actually.



kupomogli said:
Otakumegane said:

And SMT also reuses demons and spell animations. Some of the sprites in SMT are rips of Soul Hackers. Sequels reuse assets.

Still haven't answered my question. What makes you think that most Atlus games have a higher dev cost? At least FE:A used 3D models during actual battle and story cutscenes SMTIV uses all sprites, and the little 3D animation/models that are there is for dungeons. If SMTIV had such a big dev cost and effort put into it, then why is combat all 1st person sprite based?

Those GBA games you have there have better sprite work/animations than SMT.

I might not have answered the question as you would have liked me to, but I did answer your question.  The newest Fire Emblem does have better graphics than the previous portable titles, but as I've said in a previous post, and what you have seemed to ignore twice, these graphics are more than likely going to be used for the next 3-5 games. 

But for the answer you want to hear.  Yeah, SMT games reuse enemies, spell animations, etc.  I haven't played SMT4 yet, trying to finish what I'm playing before I get to it, but while I've seen demon's that reuse the Soul Hackers version, the demon's aren't static or hovering and have animations on their basic sprite.  The common spells that I've seen also don't look like any other version, although I haven't played Strange Journey either so there's always the possibility of using those spell animations.

What about when SMT3 came to the PS2 though.  Every single demon was rendered in full 3D.  Every demon was animated rather than a static 3D stance.  A demon that cast a spell would cast it differently than another while they had several different animations depending on what kind of physical attack they would use.  Some demons were different colored versions, but for the ones that weren't, or the ones that were and used a different weapon, that's a lot of time put into the game.  DDS and DDS2 reused a lot of demon's and spell effects from SMT Nocturne, but there are new demons and skills, all the characters have their own attacks and critical attacks, cast spells differently, and have different actions when using physical skills.

I know you're going to argue DDS reuses assets, the very reason I included it above, but as I stated prior, it's not about whether or not assets are reused.  It's that the Atlus titles seem to have larger budgets than the Fire Emblem games and they don't sell as much.  If you want to try and take the argument in a different direction then it's going to be a completely different argument which I'll just ignore.  It's clear that DDS2 has different gameplay mechanics than Nocturne outside of the press turn system, different dungeons, different looking characters, while there's a very good chance if you were to show a battlefield and the same class on each attacking, even some Fire Emblem fans might not know the difference.  SMT3 probably cost more in development than all the GBA Fire Emblem games combined.

Two major reasons that a lot of Western fans don't seem to pick up  on as to why SMTIV went with sprites compared to SMT3/Nocturne

1.) Intentional Throwback: The entire SMTIV game is meant to be an intentional throwback, from the graphics, to the story to the characters. All the major characters you meet in SMTIV are pretty much remixes or in some cases the same ones that existed in the original SMT. By keeping things similar and in case of sprite usage the same they are going after the nostalgia of the original games and keeping the art styles of many of the demons the franchise is built upon.

2.) Money and time: Of course the 3DS could process polygon models on par with those used in the previous game but it would be expensive especially given how the art styles for the games usually are for different demons/angels. I mean Atlus has experience with 3D and have even done 2 full 3D Etrian Odyssey games, if they wanted SMTIV could have been filled with 3D models but it would have taken a while and cost alot. Some people seem to forget... or just don't remember that Atlus had issues with the development of SMTIII leading to them releasing the Maniax upgraded release. It could be a matter of them wanting the game out within a particular period of time and not wanting the problems they had with getting SMTIII out the door.



Xxain said:

Gung Ho would be good publisher. They got Game Arts( Grandia, Lunar) and they have been a priority developer for publisher. Im sure Atlus would fit right in. What also make's them a better choice is that they are a RPG company known for Ragnorak series and other online MMO's


If they are so good, where is my new Grandia? They have been stuck working on ragnarok making a game with little story.

 

Back on topic and what everyone must realise is that nintendo will protect their investments and smt x fe is gonna come out. Wether it requires buying atlus or not. For the price and the smt brand that sells not only games but other mediums aswell as the talented staff. I dont see where it would be a bad deal for nintendo.



Nem said:
Xxain said:

Gung Ho would be good publisher. They got Game Arts( Grandia, Lunar) and they have been a priority developer for publisher. Im sure Atlus would fit right in. What also make's them a better choice is that they are a RPG company known for Ragnorak series and other online MMO's


If they are so good, where is my new Grandia? They have been stuck working on ragnarok making a game with little story.

 

Back on topic and what everyone must realise is that nintendo will protect their investments and smt x fe is gonna come out. Wether it requires buying atlus or not. For the price and the smt brand that sells not only games but other mediums aswell as the talented staff. I dont see where it would be a bad deal for nintendo.


Im not going to say we will never see one again but the brothers that created the series are no longer with the company. One brother left to form his own company and the other died at like 38 years old. The reason I say this is because when the guy behind Lunar left..we stop getting Lunar.



That's great it would benefit Nintendo but what about Atlus? Is Nintendo willing to invest in Atlus to help groom them out of their niche status? Atlus is a RPG company. All they're going to do is make RPG's. Atlus needs to partner with a publisher that's willing to invest in THEIR growth. If GungHo bought Atlus it would have no effect on the partnership with Nintendo.