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Forums - General Discussion - So Detroit is now Bankrupt...

MoHasanie said:
Its cause people are leaving and no one wants to live there. They should try to fix their city and make it safe.

So... get a RoboCop?



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Otakumegane said:
1st thing we have to fix is the safety. I live near Detroit actually and if no one wants to shop there, work there, invest in there, or just scared to just be there, $$ is not going to be coming in.

Don't know how to do this.


Meijer is opening or has opened a store in Detroit, the first ever and is bringing 500 jobs there.  Not a lot, but it'll be something.

EDIT:   If it proves successful, I imagine Detrioit will end up like Grand Rapids, and you won't be able to spit in any direction without hitting a store.



Yes

Vote these jackasses (rep and dem) out but with the way these people are brainwashed,we won't see this poor city fixed anytime soon

No (again.....it depends/as stated by the 2nd answer)



the2real4mafol said:

The other day, it was announced that Detroit was filing for bankruptcy, the largest American city, if not the largest city in the world to do so. I find it quite depressing really, that once a great city has been allowed to rot like this. I shouldn't be suprised though, as cars was it's heart, it's what made Detroit. Once manufacturing of cars left for Asia in the 80's and 90's, the city sort of died i guess but to think in all this time it hasn't really been re-invented yet. It has been allowed to wallow in the past. Just one of the great flaws of capitalism i guess, as profit was put first and so companies would rather exploit Asian workers rather than employ people in their home country. And to think this could of happened in many cities around the world if they weren't reinvented. The Eastern parts of London come to mind for me, that area became a dump in the 80's but does ok now because of the financial district and the investment from the 2012 olympics. 

But anyway, let's discuss this. 

1. Was this avoidable?

2. How can Detroit become prosperous again? if possible

3. Will we ever learn from the mistakes of Detroit? Where most of the city's economy was based off making cars and nothing else. 


It's the UAW's fault plain and simple for ruining the auto industry. When will people learn that union's have outlived their usefulenes and are now doing more harm than good? At the turn of the century they were useful for getting safe working conditions, overtime pay, etc. but now they just demand outrageous wages, all the time off you could want, and protect unproductive workers from being canned. 

Disband the UAW (U Aren't Working) and you will see jobs staying in America instead of going to Mexico. Or at the very least make Michigan a Right to Work state and let workers choose to leave the union but keep their job. I'm sure many workers will find conditions the same, and will enjoy not having part of their salary go to Union dues. 



Marks said:
the2real4mafol said:

The other day, it was announced that Detroit was filing for bankruptcy, the largest American city, if not the largest city in the world to do so. I find it quite depressing really, that once a great city has been allowed to rot like this. I shouldn't be suprised though, as cars was it's heart, it's what made Detroit. Once manufacturing of cars left for Asia in the 80's and 90's, the city sort of died i guess but to think in all this time it hasn't really been re-invented yet. It has been allowed to wallow in the past. Just one of the great flaws of capitalism i guess, as profit was put first and so companies would rather exploit Asian workers rather than employ people in their home country. And to think this could of happened in many cities around the world if they weren't reinvented. The Eastern parts of London come to mind for me, that area became a dump in the 80's but does ok now because of the financial district and the investment from the 2012 olympics. 

But anyway, let's discuss this. 

1. Was this avoidable?

2. How can Detroit become prosperous again? if possible

3. Will we ever learn from the mistakes of Detroit? Where most of the city's economy was based off making cars and nothing else. 


It's the UAW's fault plain and simple for ruining the auto industry. When will people learn that union's have outlived their usefulenes and are now doing more harm than good? At the turn of the century they were useful for getting safe working conditions, overtime pay, etc. but now they just demand outrageous wages, all the time off you could want, and protect unproductive workers from being canned. 

Disband the UAW (U Aren't Working) and you will see jobs staying in America instead of going to Mexico. Or at the very least make Michigan a Right to Work state and let workers choose to leave the union but keep their job. I'm sure many workers will find conditions the same, and will enjoy not having part of their salary go to Union dues. 

Unions protect us all from exploitation, and are the only reason that a 40-hour work week is the standard. Too much Union power is not the answer, but neither is a lack of unions.

If all of the working class suffers in poor working conditions, who is going to drive the economy? The super-rich can only buy so many yachts.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Mr Khan said:
Marks said:
the2real4mafol said:

The other day, it was announced that Detroit was filing for bankruptcy, the largest American city, if not the largest city in the world to do so. I find it quite depressing really, that once a great city has been allowed to rot like this. I shouldn't be suprised though, as cars was it's heart, it's what made Detroit. Once manufacturing of cars left for Asia in the 80's and 90's, the city sort of died i guess but to think in all this time it hasn't really been re-invented yet. It has been allowed to wallow in the past. Just one of the great flaws of capitalism i guess, as profit was put first and so companies would rather exploit Asian workers rather than employ people in their home country. And to think this could of happened in many cities around the world if they weren't reinvented. The Eastern parts of London come to mind for me, that area became a dump in the 80's but does ok now because of the financial district and the investment from the 2012 olympics. 

But anyway, let's discuss this. 

1. Was this avoidable?

2. How can Detroit become prosperous again? if possible

3. Will we ever learn from the mistakes of Detroit? Where most of the city's economy was based off making cars and nothing else. 


It's the UAW's fault plain and simple for ruining the auto industry. When will people learn that union's have outlived their usefulenes and are now doing more harm than good? At the turn of the century they were useful for getting safe working conditions, overtime pay, etc. but now they just demand outrageous wages, all the time off you could want, and protect unproductive workers from being canned. 

Disband the UAW (U Aren't Working) and you will see jobs staying in America instead of going to Mexico. Or at the very least make Michigan a Right to Work state and let workers choose to leave the union but keep their job. I'm sure many workers will find conditions the same, and will enjoy not having part of their salary go to Union dues. 

Unions protect us all from exploitation, and are the only reason that a 40-hour work week is the standard. Too much Union power is not the answer, but neither is a lack of unions.

If all of the working class suffers in poor working conditions, who is going to drive the economy? The super-rich can only buy so many yachts.

except for the inconvienient fact that the 40 hr work week was implemented without unions.

and no, unions dont protect us from exploitation, in fact they like bending us over and giving it to us. they free market and the free transferance of information is what protects us from exploitation. which is why when a state becomes right to work (giving people the option to opt out of the union, not being forced into it) almost everybody leaves the union. 

at bolded: every day you seem less and less like an actual socialist and more and more like a parady of one.



killerzX said:
Mr Khan said:

Unions protect us all from exploitation, and are the only reason that a 40-hour work week is the standard. Too much Union power is not the answer, but neither is a lack of unions.

If all of the working class suffers in poor working conditions, who is going to drive the economy? The super-rich can only buy so many yachts.

except for the inconvienient fact that the 40 hr work week was implemented without unions.

and no, unions dont protect us from exploitation, in fact they like bending us over and giving it to us. they free market and the free transferance of information is what protects us from exploitation. which is why when a state becomes right to work (giving people the option to opt out of the union, not being forced into it) almost everybody leaves the union. 

at bolded: you are seeming more and more each day to actually be a parody of a socialist, and not a genuine statist.

The employer holds the natural bargaining power in any given situation. The workers need mass representation in order to prevent exploitation. If you don't think this country isn't absolutely stupid with worker exploitation (from the so-called job creators) today, then there is no hope for you.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
killerzX said:
Mr Khan said:
 

Unions protect us all from exploitation, and are the only reason that a 40-hour work week is the standard. Too much Union power is not the answer, but neither is a lack of unions.

If all of the working class suffers in poor working conditions, who is going to drive the economy? The super-rich can only buy so many yachts.

except for the inconvienient fact that the 40 hr work week was implemented without unions.

and no, unions dont protect us from exploitation, in fact they like bending us over and giving it to us. they free market and the free transferance of information is what protects us from exploitation. which is why when a state becomes right to work (giving people the option to opt out of the union, not being forced into it) almost everybody leaves the union. 

at bolded: you are seeming more and more each day to actually be a parody of a socialist, and not a genuine statist.

The employer holds the natural bargaining power in any given situation. The workers need mass representation in order to prevent exploitation. If you don't think this country isn't absolutely stupid with worker exploitation (from the so-called job creators) today, then there is no hope for you.

because people manipulate the market. if you think we are anywhere close to free market then there is no hope for you.

being an employee is a voluntary contract. the employee holds just as much bargaining power as the employer.

and i dont have anything against mass representation of employees, i just want them to have the choice wether or not to have this representation. and actually force the unions to prove their worth. which in virtually every case when given the option, unions fail to prove the provide a beneficial service.

but i like how you completely ignore that you claim about 40 hr work was exposed as the falacy that it is. its a complete lie and you know it. yet you repeat this lie, and get called out on it every time. it dont see why you keep doing it. but as the saying goes, and democrats make into a past-time, if you repeat a lie long enough people will start to believe it. unfortunately with the democrating  base of the low information voter, the saying proves to be true.



No, this was not avoidable unless you could go back in a time machine and stop the riots back in the 1960's. it was the beginning of the end for Detroit. After the riots,the slow migration of all the decent hardworking citizens began. At its peak, Detroit had over 2 million people living in it around 1960...now it's down to around 800,000 with over 20% unemployment. My Grandparents used to tell me how beautiful the city was when they grew up...but when I was a kid growing up in the 80's, I couldn't believe them. The city was already a warzone. Buildings boarded up everywhere, drug houses all over the place, and nasty hookers littering the blocks. My grandparents were the only Caucasian people living on their street and they held out as long as they could. They bought there house in the late 40's and finally got forced out of their  house when bullets sprayed through their walls from the crack house next door. That was around 1990.

If you have never been there, Detroit is a massive city when it comes to the amount of area it covers. When you lose that many tax paying people and have to provide services to same amount of area cost will get out of control. Tack on 40 years of Coleman Young and Kwame Kiltzpatrick running the city and you have a recipe for disaster. Those two may have been the most corrupt mayors in the countries history and the people of Detroit just kept reelecting them...not  that they were helping the city, but because they were democrats and the color of their skin. Not that it really mattered. When you have a police force that was severely underpaid, a less than 50% high school graduation rate, and empty buildings everywhere, you have a recipe for disaster. It's a real shame because you have a real nice area developing around Greektown and the stadiums downtown. But if you stray a couple blocks watch out.

People have thrown out ideas about demolishing half the city that is abandoned and turn it into farmland. You could reduce the cities service bill, create jobs, and get rid of the abandoned parts of town all in one shot. But it was shot shot down instantly by the corrupt government and all the lazy welfare recipients that might actually have to work for a living.

As far as the auto industry goes, most of the factories have been in the suburbs for quite some time. So the recent downturn in the U.S. auto industry only had a minimal effect on Detroit's tax revenue. But as some of the above posters mentioned, you can blame that on the unions. When you have janitors making over $20 an hour, getting time and a half and double time on the weekends, you have a serious problem. The plants shut down for a month and all the workers still get 70% of their pay for the month....seriously??? And they still have all their vacation and sick days. Paying huge bonuses for years to people already earning 50k a year working the line with a high school education and they expected the industry to survive. I hope the UAW is happy. They destroyed the pride of Michigan. 

Detroit will not comeback in my lifetime. And unfortunately this is going to start happening more across the country. Oakland, California will be the next big city to file bankruptcy. It's another city that has been blue for 50 years and is in the same situation as Detroit. 

And what's even scarier is that our Federal Government is running the entire country the same way these cities have been run. How much longer can the Fed keep printing money before the U.S dollar is worthless. The whole system is broken. Things need to go back to the way our founding father's laid out. Have the Federal government deal with military and foreign concerns and let the states run themselves. Stop regulating, policing, and spying on your own citizens. But I fear it's too late and whether we like it or not we are no longer a democracy and are crossing the line into a solicialistic state run by corporations.

End Rant and sorry for bouncing around on my train of thoughts.



It's really is just the beginning. The United States themselves just barely avoided bankruptcy some months ago. Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Italy and some other european countries are bankrupt and on life support by the EU. The whole financial system is falling apart.



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