How do you view Snowden? | |||
| Hero | 163 | 73.76% | |
| Coward | 12 | 5.43% | |
| A threat to national security | 19 | 8.60% | |
| Snitch | 11 | 4.98% | |
| Snowden?? Heck is that?? | 16 | 7.24% | |
| Total: | 221 | ||
| weaveworld said: I can understand him running because of the hospitality offered to Manning. |
Well down to the point. It's a tragedy how Manning is treated.
| forest-spirit said: He did the right thing, but he should've chosen another country to flee to. There really was no need to include both China and Russia in this mess. |
Basically - there should he go to? All western countries would extradite him to the US, so his option are more or less the enemies of the USA.
| spurgeonryan said: Thought this was a Figure skating thread. Had to look up this snowden. I think he is a criminal. Follow the rules or else. |
So you say the american government is criminal, because it doesn't follow the rules set in the constitution? I agree. 
NiKKoM said:
|
Elaborate please.
MTZehvor said:
Certainly, but we hardly even know how much the NSA's efforts would even begin to stem the tide of terrorism. According to them, their efforts stopped "dozens" of different terrorist attacks last year. But how many is dozens? How many of these attacks would have been preventable through other means? Who are these supposed terrorists to begin with, and when were they put on trial? Where is any credible evidence that proves these figures to begin with? All that we have is the NSA's word that they've stopped "dozens" of terrorist attacks. Before an entire nation submits itself to secret government wiretapping that has the potential to be horribly abused, I would like a bit more concrete evidence that shows that this wiretapping actually prevents acts of terrorism, and if it does, how many attacks it prevents would be crucial as well. |
Yes it's hard to evaluate the results. It relies a lot on trust, how much you trust your elected politicians and the government, and their efficiency and honesty.
But I believe they do have concrete results, CIA and NSA that is.
Recently I saw an Israeli documentary about the Shin Bet, the Israeli secret service responsible for security on the occcupied territories, and this was a documentary critical towards the organization and its methods, but it became very clear that Shin Bet has stopped several terrorist attacks and terrorist leaders. Naturally they used traditional secret service methods such as under-cover agents, interrogations and whatnot, but surveillance was one important method out of many.
Slimebeast said:
Elaborate please. |
Red scare where people were labeled communist in the USA to try and ruin their careers (actors, businessmen, etc). You never heard of the red scare/McCarthyism?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy
sethnintendo said:
Red scare where people were labeled communist in the USA to try and ruin their careers (actors, businessmen, etc). You never heard of the red scare/McCarthyism? |
Oh yeah, now I remember. The commie paranoia in USA.
But that was way way back in the past. 
Mnementh said:
Basically - there should he go to? All western countries would extradite him to the US, so his option are more or less the enemies of the USA. |
He never technically was in China and likely Russia as well.
Honk Kong is an autonomus region, that acts as a sovereign goverment outside of military and foreign affairs. Press release you see below was issued by HKSAR goverment, which is pretty much middle finger to the US authorities (whether it was agreed with Beijing or not is unknown):
As for his flight to Moscow, afaik he never left international zone (unless straight to Ecuador embassy) and left next day.
So there're no legal basis for extradition, nor political will apparently to interfere in any way, since his value for secret services of said countries is doubtful if any. But conspiracy theories are multiplying, some say Snowden never was on that flight, some say there no any Snowden at all. Who cares? He reminds me Elusive Joe: - He is Elusive because nobody can catch him? - Nope, nobody needs him.
UPD: Putin: "Assange, like Snowden, consider himself a human rights activist of sorts, fighting for free access to information. Ask yourself: is this really necessary to extradite these people so they go to jail? Anyway it'd prefer not to deal with such issues. It's like giving a pig a haircut -- a lot of squeal, but little wool" :D As I've said, Elusive Joe.
What is really needed is transparency in how there are guarantees against abuse of this information. I believe that the government could be transparent about how they are not abusing this information without revealing sensitive details of how precisely they are collecting it (though clearly it's a targeted or randomized scheme in the first place. PRISM's budget is much too small to catalogue anywhere near the totality of information going through just the big sites)
Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.
| Mr Khan said: What is really needed is transparency in how there are guarantees against abuse of this information. I believe that the government could be transparent about how they are not abusing this information without revealing sensitive details of how precisely they are collecting it (though clearly it's a targeted or randomized scheme in the first place. PRISM's budget is much too small to catalogue anywhere near the totality of information going through just the big sites) |
Looks like a decent sized budget to me if they can build this huge data center for their servers.
"The planned structure is 1 million or 1.5 million square feet,[4][2][15] 100,000 square feet of data center space and greater than 900,000 square feet of technical support and administrative space,[3][4] and it is projected to cost from $1.5 billion[16][17][5] to $2 billion when finished in September 2013.[3][4] One report suggested that it will cost another $2 billion for hardware, software, and maintenance.[4] The completed facility is expected to require 65 megawatts, costing about $40 million per year.[3][4]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center
"The storage capacity of the Utah Data Center will be measured in "zettabytes". What exactly is a zettabyte? There are a thousand gigabytes in a terabyte; a thousand terabytes in a petabyte; a thousand petabytes in an exabyte; and a thousand exabytes in a zettabyte. Some of our employees like to refer to them as "alottabytes"."
http://nsa.gov1.info/utah-data-center/
Hell, I'm probably helping build some of the servers that they will use there. Build these +million dollar server units that have 4-5 $50k boards, 4-5 30-40k boards, bunch of daughter cards that are probably 5-20k each all in one unit.
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