Forums - Sales Discussion - "Journey Becomes Profitable, ThatGameCompany Starts Receiving Royalties"

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osed125 said:

Man if this is the case for a small indie game, I can't imagine how AAA games are doing. No wonder we are seeing more failures than ever.


I actually live in Tokyo right now (moving to Korea for three months tomorrow), so I really need to get to sleep now.  (On that note, it's cheaper to live in Seoul and Tokyo than in Los Angeles...)

Indie games on the PSN and XBLA haven't been doing so well.  I don't know of/can't say specific numbers, but a lot of games aren't selling that well.  Papo & Yo is an example of a game that sold decently well on PSN, but didn't recoup it's investment.  They effectively used the PS3 release as a way to advertise their PC release, which will end up turning the game into profit.

As for AAA games, what has happened over the past 7 years is many major publishers just aren't developing games anymore.  They're basically developing one game.  THQ didn't go out of business because its games weren't profitable (well, some weren't, but that's another story), it went out of business because it was pumping so much cash into all of the games it had been making.  The people were trying to run the company like they were back in the PS2/Xbox/GC days, where development costs were lower.  It's much harder to run out of funds when a game costs $10M than when it costs $30M.

Look at Sega, EA, Activision, etc.  They all used to publish hundreds of games a year, but now each company only has a handful of releases.  I am too tired to look at exact numbers, but the PS2 at this point in its life cycle had something like 4-5 times the number of games than the PS3 does.

I was a huge fan of the .hack series (there was no second series, just like there was only one Matrix movie).  Each of the four games sold... 250,000?... copies on the PS2, and Bandai was like, "Holy bukkits!  This is awesome!"  Nowadays, if a disc-based release sells 250,000 copies, it either had an extremely tiny development budget or the developer is going out of business.



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You guys got almost as much money as Ebay did from Benchmark. I heard they do most of their business as split ownership split profits. Are you self publishing the next title then? Also will TGC own this IP or will Benchmark?



AmishGramish said:
cmeese47 said:
I wish Sony would but ThatGameCompany.

While Flow, Flower, and Journey should be played by more people, losing these kind of exclusives would be very bad for Sony.

Maybe then we could see ports of Cloud to Vita/PS3/PS4.

Sony could then fund Don't let their balls touch.

These titles would be a perfect highlight to the new indy section Sony is promoting on PS4. Although that would technically not make them indy games anymore.

Still Sony buy Thatgamecompany


Personally, if I get the cash, I'd really like to give Bryan Singh a huge pile of cash to finish DLTBT.  (Physics of Don't Let The Balls Touch: http://vimeo.com/23400070 )

On a side note, Bryan's now working on Naughty Dog's new game.  (He also worked on The Last of Us) :D


I think that you guys should work only for Sony and that's what i want. I cant believe you guys would stab Sony in the back like that by going multiplat!!

 

naw i'm kidding =P

 

I love Love LOVED Flower and i appreciate the type of games that you guys make. also, do you mind sharing your thoughts on what Sony is doing with the PS4 and how they're being open to independent developers? They are supposedly forcing other companies to break down their harsher barriers towards independent developers aswell



AmishGramish said:
cmeese47 said:
I wish Sony would but ThatGameCompany.

While Flow, Flower, and Journey should be played by more people, losing these kind of exclusives would be very bad for Sony.

Maybe then we could see ports of Cloud to Vita/PS3/PS4.

Sony could then fund Don't let their balls touch.

These titles would be a perfect highlight to the new indy section Sony is promoting on PS4. Although that would technically not make them indy games anymore.

Still Sony buy Thatgamecompany


Personally, if I get the cash, I'd really like to give Bryan Singh a huge pile of cash to finish DLTBT.  (Physics of Don't Let The Balls Touch: http://vimeo.com/23400070 )

On a side note, Bryan's now working on Naughty Dog's new game.  (He also worked on The Last of Us) :D

Please tell us more



 

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AmishGramish said:

Going multiplatform doesn't mean that we hate Sony or that the next game won't be on one or more of their consoles, it just means that we're trying to make our games more accessible to more people.


This was my favourite part of your post.

Also, thanks for coming on here and clearing all this stuff up.  Really interesting.



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danasider said:
Bristow9091 said:
kitler53 said:

sony.  such assholes.  no wonder they are going multiplat.

Pretty much this.

Sony mistreated them, worked them to the bone, poked them with pointed sticks, didn't give them Christmas bonuses, and were overall dicks to the entire company... going multiplatform is the best way to go for thatgamecompany after the horrors they faced working with Sony.


This has debunked WITHIN the thread by someone who worked on the game (AmishGramish).  You probably should read every post before assuming the worst and oversensationalizing a non-issue.  The game wasn't a truly independent project.  The developers were independent and so was their vision, but their funding wasn't.  Sony put a lot of money and effort into having Journey see the light of day.  In the end, it was an investment and they got back what they deserved and now ThatGameCompany is seeing profit.  But the workers did get paid for their efforts and will undoubtedly continue to reap benefits in the future from their work on this acclaimed and unconventional title.

Ironic enough this game was the result of Sony funding the game, NOT with the dev self publishing.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Good.



     
Games can and should tell stories and share ideas through their mechanics. This is the intrinsic element of the medium and this is how experiences should be crafted in video games. No company does this as well as Nintendo and their echoes from the past.
  Aurum Ring  Delano7  Ocarinahero032

AmishGramish said:


I actually live in Tokyo right now (moving to Korea for three months tomorrow), so I really need to get to sleep now.  (On that note, it's cheaper to live in Seoul and Tokyo than in Los Angeles...)

Indie games on the PSN and XBLA haven't been doing so well.  I don't know of/can't say specific numbers, but a lot of games aren't selling that well.  Papo & Yo is an example of a game that sold decently well on PSN, but didn't recoup it's investment.  They effectively used the PS3 release as a way to advertise their PC release, which will end up turning the game into profit.

As for AAA games, what has happened over the past 7 years is many major publishers just aren't developing games anymore.  They're basically developing one game.  THQ didn't go out of business because its games weren't profitable (well, some weren't, but that's another story), it went out of business because it was pumping so much cash into all of the games it had been making.  The people were trying to run the company like they were back in the PS2/Xbox/GC days, where development costs were lower.  It's much harder to run out of funds when a game costs $10M than when it costs $30M.

Look at Sega, EA, Activision, etc.  They all used to publish hundreds of games a year, but now each company only has a handful of releases.  I am too tired to look at exact numbers, but the PS2 at this point in its life cycle had something like 4-5 times the number of games than the PS3 does.

I was a huge fan of the .hack series (there was no second series, just like there was only one Matrix movie).  Each of the four games sold... 250,000?... copies on the PS2, and Bandai was like, "Holy bukkits!  This is awesome!"  Nowadays, if a disc-based release sells 250,000 copies, it either had an extremely tiny development budget or the developer is going out of business.

That is interesting, I really need to get round to buying that game but at this point I I might as well wait for the Steam sale to pick it up (I know it's already cheap but I blew all my gaming money on Kickstarter lol). I know you probably can't say, but would you consider/ would it be possible for you guys to possibly self publish Flower and Journey on PC yourselves? I mean I know you can't talk about the details of you contract, and I think I read that Sony owns the IPs so the situation is very different but some other Sony published/funded PSN games eventually made it to other platforms (PixelJunk Eden, Joe Danger, Everyday Shooter etc).

Anyway keep up the good work and I look forward to seeing what you guys are cooking up next.



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AmishGramish said:
osed125 said:

Man if this is the case for a small indie game, I can't imagine how AAA games are doing. No wonder we are seeing more failures than ever.


I actually live in Tokyo right now (moving to Korea for three months tomorrow), so I really need to get to sleep now.  (On that note, it's cheaper to live in Seoul and Tokyo than in Los Angeles...)

Indie games on the PSN and XBLA haven't been doing so well.  I don't know of/can't say specific numbers, but a lot of games aren't selling that well.  Papo & Yo is an example of a game that sold decently well on PSN, but didn't recoup it's investment.  They effectively used the PS3 release as a way to advertise their PC release, which will end up turning the game into profit.

As for AAA games, what has happened over the past 7 years is many major publishers just aren't developing games anymore.  They're basically developing one game.  THQ didn't go out of business because its games weren't profitable (well, some weren't, but that's another story), it went out of business because it was pumping so much cash into all of the games it had been making.  The people were trying to run the company like they were back in the PS2/Xbox/GC days, where development costs were lower.  It's much harder to run out of funds when a game costs $10M than when it costs $30M.

Look at Sega, EA, Activision, etc.  They all used to publish hundreds of games a year, but now each company only has a handful of releases.  I am too tired to look at exact numbers, but the PS2 at this point in its life cycle had something like 4-5 times the number of games than the PS3 does.

I was a huge fan of the .hack series (there was no second series, just like there was only one Matrix movie).  Each of the four games sold... 250,000?... copies on the PS2, and Bandai was like, "Holy bukkits!  This is awesome!"  Nowadays, if a disc-based release sells 250,000 copies, it either had an extremely tiny development budget or the developer is going out of business.

Hi Aaron

Firstly, thanks for making Journey, probably one the best game I've played this gen and definitely one of the most unique.

Thank you a second time for making Flower, I played that game once when I was high and it was a fcken sweet ride.

Thank you a third time for making Flow, (but damn you for using that stupid sixaxis control lol).

Finally, please consider crowdfunding as a possible supplimentary funding avenue. ThatGameCompany has clout and prestige enough to go it alone but take yourself to kickstarter and you will see legions of followers flock to your banner. I will fund the shit out of your next product and all I'll ask for in return is your next game....

...

Okay so maybe I also want the ability to lick you (in the face dammit!) if you ever come to Australia.

:)




If a game sells well but don't recoup their development costs, then something went wrong in the management of the team and development somewhere.

Retro City Rampage sold 35,000 on PSN, making $600,000 on PSN, and sold 40,000 on PC (including Steam) and made $400,000 there.

Clearly, PSN yields more money.