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Forums - General Discussion - What Entry Level RWD Sports car should I get?

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Which one?

Subaru BRZ Cabrio 3 9.68%
 
Subaru BRZ STI 6 19.35%
 
Subaru BRZ STI Cabrio 3 9.68%
 
BMW 335i (or 335is) 5 16.13%
 
BMW 235i 0 0%
 
Porsche Boxer 5 16.13%
 
Other 6 19.35%
 
See Results 3 9.68%
 
Total:31
g911turbo said:
I have to agree with some people on here. It seems like you need to really define what you are looking for, because its seems like you're comparing cars across the spectrum. I currently own my second BMW now... hard to look back. They are really fun to drive and come with ZERO (including oil changes) maintenance for 50K or 4 years. After driving my families domestics, they just don't put the same grin on my face.

Also, how long do you plan to keep the car? Turbo cars will have more long term repair costs, but if you plan to sell in 3 years or lease one, that might be irrelevant.

I plan to keep the car as long as possible. Even BMW is removing manual transmissions from their lineup, and I just want this as a daily driver. When I have more money I'll get a nicer, more expensive, fancy fancy sports car, and use this for back and forth to work.

Price range, ~30k

What I'm looking for: fun to drive manual, probably going to need 4 seats so I can use 2 as baby seats just in case I go down that route.



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With oil prices expected to double within the next 10 years, efficiency would be a top priority for me.



TheLastStarFighter said:

You're LOL'ing at me saying domestic reliability is on par with foreign brands, but the only real lol is that you're using antecdotal evidence to say what lasts longer.  I go by market research and publications like Consumer Reports or JD Power.  My folks gave me a Dodge Intrepid that lasted past 350k kms, but that doesn't really say anything about expected reliability for someone else.  Reliability also varies wildly by model, so an S-Class may be great but an E-Class terible, an Intrepid fine but a Neon a shit box and so on.

I would agree if you were saying past models had poor build quality.  The Montana you mentioned being an example.  But if you look at brands like Ford or Hyundai - which was once abysmal - new cars that you buy today are quite possibly every bit as good as a Toyota or Honda.  Or at least close.  Certain brands like Lexus, Lincoln, Buick and Porche stand out while models from Land Rover and some others are quite poor, but most of the mass-market is similar.

More on topic though, are you considering model changes?  Since you're a couple years away, the new Mustang will launch with IRS and new look, and the Challenger will also be new.  I plan to give them a good look over.  Personally, I love the 335 convertible so it's a front runner for me even though like you said, it's about to be replaced by the 435 next year, and I can't/won't afford it completely new right now.  I also like the Lexus IS350C.  I like the Genesis but don't like the image enough.  I'm also debating a used SL-class, but it would require going older than I would like and no back seat is an issue.

If you like small and light I think the BRZ seems like a great fit, or the new 2-series.  BRZ's are less pretentous, but they do seem to be cop magnets.

Oh yes, I've looked up statistics on American cars too, read JD Power on reliability reports, and read anohter book called lemonaide which specifically talks about maintenance issues of cars. American cars supposedly get on average 120,000 miles (200,000km), while Japanese cars typically last 200,000 miles (330,000km) from what I've read.

Yes, I know reliability depends on models, for instance Benz SUV's suck, but sedans are good. Anyway I doubt that modern Fords are as good as modern Honda's/Toyota's. A friend has a 2009 Fusion AND a 2007 Accord, and the Fusion with less milage already has more problems. If you look at consumer reports, American cars are still pretty far behind the Japanese. Ford is ok, I did say that, but Crysler are still just as bad as they've always been, and Chevy is only a little better.

The reason I mention cases I know in real life, is because they are relfective of consumer reports. When Lemonaide for instance gives an average score, that means that around 200km that component (engine, transmission, etc) will start to give problems. Most American cars, even Ford, still typically return average values, where Japanese deliver Good-Excellent scores. BMW is somewhere inbetween with excellent engines/tranny's and average accessory's.

---

On topic, good point about the new Mustang! The new one looks amazing via concept photos. I think I will consider that now, like I said I'm not particularly against Ford, I think they are OK. LOL, but not Dodge, never Dodge, I know too many horror story's of control arms just breaking, and tires falling off at speed. A friend of mine has a 2012 Crysler 300, and already big problems, I don't know why you defend a company like this.

I really like the BMW 335 too, I might just get a 2013 model, it would look old, but the 3 coupe is a great car. I'm not too interested in the 2/4 with electric steering, and rumored to come in auto only. Lexus and the SL are auto only, and the Hyndai Genesis Coupe is over-priced IMO, and too small in the back (yes a BRZ is bigger in the back).

You have given me, a very good alternate The new Mustang looks sweet.



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Michael-5 said:
TheLastStarFighter said:

You're LOL'ing at me saying domestic reliability is on par with foreign brands, but the only real lol is that you're using antecdotal evidence to say what lasts longer.  I go by market research and publications like Consumer Reports or JD Power.  My folks gave me a Dodge Intrepid that lasted past 350k kms, but that doesn't really say anything about expected reliability for someone else.  Reliability also varies wildly by model, so an S-Class may be great but an E-Class terible, an Intrepid fine but a Neon a shit box and so on.

I would agree if you were saying past models had poor build quality.  The Montana you mentioned being an example.  But if you look at brands like Ford or Hyundai - which was once abysmal - new cars that you buy today are quite possibly every bit as good as a Toyota or Honda.  Or at least close.  Certain brands like Lexus, Lincoln, Buick and Porche stand out while models from Land Rover and some others are quite poor, but most of the mass-market is similar.

More on topic though, are you considering model changes?  Since you're a couple years away, the new Mustang will launch with IRS and new look, and the Challenger will also be new.  I plan to give them a good look over.  Personally, I love the 335 convertible so it's a front runner for me even though like you said, it's about to be replaced by the 435 next year, and I can't/won't afford it completely new right now.  I also like the Lexus IS350C.  I like the Genesis but don't like the image enough.  I'm also debating a used SL-class, but it would require going older than I would like and no back seat is an issue.

If you like small and light I think the BRZ seems like a great fit, or the new 2-series.  BRZ's are less pretentous, but they do seem to be cop magnets.

Oh yes, I've looked up statistics on American cars too, read JD Power on reliability reports, and read anohter book called lemonaide which specifically talks about maintenance issues of cars. American cars supposedly get on average 120,000 miles (200,000km), while Japanese cars typically last 200,000 miles (330,000km) from what I've read.

Yes, I know reliability depends on models, for instance Benz SUV's suck, but sedans are good. Anyway I doubt that modern Fords are as good as modern Honda's/Toyota's. A friend has a 2009 Fusion AND a 2007 Accord, and the Fusion with less milage already has more problems. If you look at consumer reports, American cars are still pretty far behind the Japanese. Ford is ok, I did say that, but Crysler are still just as bad as they've always been, and Chevy is only a little better.

The reason I mention cases I know in real life, is because they are relfective of consumer reports. When Lemonaide for instance gives an average score, that means that around 200km that component (engine, transmission, etc) will start to give problems. Most American cars, even Ford, still typically return average values, where Japanese deliver Good-Excellent scores. BMW is somewhere inbetween with excellent engines/tranny's and average accessory's.

---

On topic, good point about the new Mustang! The new one looks amazing via concept photos. I think I will consider that now, like I said I'm not particularly against Ford, I think they are OK. LOL, but not Dodge, never Dodge, I know too many horror story's of control arms just breaking, and tires falling off at speed. A friend of mine has a 2012 Crysler 300, and already big problems, I don't know why you defend a company like this.

I really like the BMW 335 too, I might just get a 2013 model, it would look old, but the 3 coupe is a great car. I'm not too interested in the 2/4 with electric steering, and rumored to come in auto only. Lexus and the SL are auto only, and the Hyndai Genesis Coupe is over-priced IMO, and too small in the back (yes a BRZ is bigger in the back).

You have given me, a very good alternate The new Mustang looks sweet.

If the 2015 looks anything like that render you posted, it will bolt to the top of my list for my next car!  I'm not a big fan of the current retro styling, but that thouroughly modern look is outstanding.  I'm also hoping for a turbo 6, but for now rumors are stronger for a turbo 4 and natural 6 and 8's.

I forgot you wanted a manual.  So it looks like 335, BRX, and poosibly Next-gen Mustang are great options for smallish, nimble sports cars.  The back of the Genesis is seriously smaller than the Subaru?



TheLastStarFighter said:
Michael-5 said:

Oh yes, I've looked up statistics on American cars too, read JD Power on reliability reports, and read anohter book called lemonaide which specifically talks about maintenance issues of cars. American cars supposedly get on average 120,000 miles (200,000km), while Japanese cars typically last 200,000 miles (330,000km) from what I've read.

Yes, I know reliability depends on models, for instance Benz SUV's suck, but sedans are good. Anyway I doubt that modern Fords are as good as modern Honda's/Toyota's. A friend has a 2009 Fusion AND a 2007 Accord, and the Fusion with less milage already has more problems. If you look at consumer reports, American cars are still pretty far behind the Japanese. Ford is ok, I did say that, but Crysler are still just as bad as they've always been, and Chevy is only a little better.

The reason I mention cases I know in real life, is because they are relfective of consumer reports. When Lemonaide for instance gives an average score, that means that around 200km that component (engine, transmission, etc) will start to give problems. Most American cars, even Ford, still typically return average values, where Japanese deliver Good-Excellent scores. BMW is somewhere inbetween with excellent engines/tranny's and average accessory's.

---

On topic, good point about the new Mustang! The new one looks amazing via concept photos. I think I will consider that now, like I said I'm not particularly against Ford, I think they are OK. LOL, but not Dodge, never Dodge, I know too many horror story's of control arms just breaking, and tires falling off at speed. A friend of mine has a 2012 Crysler 300, and already big problems, I don't know why you defend a company like this.

I really like the BMW 335 too, I might just get a 2013 model, it would look old, but the 3 coupe is a great car. I'm not too interested in the 2/4 with electric steering, and rumored to come in auto only. Lexus and the SL are auto only, and the Hyndai Genesis Coupe is over-priced IMO, and too small in the back (yes a BRZ is bigger in the back).

You have given me, a very good alternate The new Mustang looks sweet.

If the 2015 looks anything like that render you posted, it will bolt to the top of my list for my next car!  I'm not a big fan of the current retro styling, but that thouroughly modern look is outstanding.  I'm also hoping for a turbo 6, but for now rumors are stronger for a turbo 4 and natural 6 and 8's.

I forgot you wanted a manual.  So it looks like 335, BRX, and poosibly Next-gen Mustang are great options for smallish, nimble sports cars.  The back of the Genesis is seriously smaller than the Subaru?

I have a subscription to Car & Driver, and judging from the way the new Fusion looks like, I'm pretty sure the new Mustang will look close to the image above. I know Ford wants to make their car appeal to foreign markets more, so they are shifting from the nasty Retro Styling, and actually they are shifting to Turbo 4's and Turbo 6's. .

Yes the back of a Genesis Coupe is smaller then the BRZ's back. The BRZ's back is even bigger then a Camaro's back, but Ford and BMW are the biggest. I think the BRZ is so big inside, and so small on the outside because it's a dedicated platform. In the Genesis Coupe, they used the larger sedan plaform, so the car is bigger and heavier then it should be. The BRZ was designed from the ground up to be a 4 seater coupe, nothing more.

Yea, it's looking like a toss up between the BRZ, 335i, and Mustang. If I get a BRZ, I'll get an STI, the 200hp model is pretty slow in a straight line. I'll have to wait on some consumer reports for mustang though, usually major changes like this cause a lot of problems in early models. However the 335i will be expensive to fix.

Realistically I'll get a used BRZ STI, or a 335i. I'd have to buy that Mustang new if I wanted it, and new cars are expensive.



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I'd get a 1990s V8 mustang or Camaro and soup it up a bit...

Depends if you want excitement while driving or you want to just impress teenage/college chicks.

V8 power and torque with no traction control, no true ABS, no computer, no stability control...is extremely exciting to drive. You screw up slightly, youre dead! Beats anything a modern car can provide in terms of excitement on the real road.

But yeah, if you want to impress young ladies, all those cars are cool.



Go for the CPO 335i sedan if you need 4 doors. If you get a 2010 model, you'll still get the true twin turbo n54 motor. Not to mention 1 year worth of full maintenance, and 2 more years up to 100K miles of CPO coverage including power train, fuel pumps, electrical motors, etc.

You can get those for under 30 a lot of times, and under 35 ALL DAY.



Miguel_Zorro said:

My friend has a Boxter just like that, in Toronto, and he definitely gets impressed looks.   The car has a wow factor.

But then again, he's also a douche, so you have that to worry about. 

Where i'm from the Boxter is considered a girl's car. And about the douche thing, well that holds true for about every Porsche driver.



AnthonyW86 said:
Miguel_Zorro said:

My friend has a Boxter just like that, in Toronto, and he definitely gets impressed looks.   The car has a wow factor.

But then again, he's also a douche, so you have that to worry about. 

Where i'm from the Boxter is considered a girl's car. And about the douche thing, well that holds true for about every Porsche driver.

Wow that is quite the stereotype.  I know a few guys who own older porsches, and they just love to track their cars.  Very cool dudes, and very good at working on their cars...  Porsches are absolute beasts on the track.

All prestigeous brands are going to have some pretentious people who own them.  But Porsche is a fine automobile period.

The boxter is simply Porsche's way of capitalizing on the lower end market.  The 911 series is where the fun begins.



Pretty much all the cars in the OP are in completely different classes to each other.

The only advice anyone can give you here is to drive all of them. See which you like most. Then try others that are similar to that.