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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Should Nintendo bring back the Wii-style marketing?

happydolphin said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Why are you using Wikipedia to debunk what I am saying? Find a real source. Secondly, I know what a gimmick is, you've just always been very protective of that word used around Nintendo. The Kinect and Move are also gimmicks. Even if their intention was meant to be a stable device used and upgraded throughout the generations the public perception is that the devices are gimmicks, therefore they are what they are and we cant change that.

So you define something using public perception? The public perception of whom, you?

That's not how it works. There is a very specific use to the term and the Wii is not a valid application of it. Wikipedia is a source where experts on a matter debate before coming to a concensus as to what a term is. There is a lot of highly invaluable information on that site.

But because you refuse it as a  source, let me use a few dictionary entries:

Merriam-webster

a : a mechanical device for secretly and dishonestly controlling gambling apparatus

   b : an ingenious or novel mechanical device : gadget

a : an important feature that is not immediately apparent : catch

   b : an ingenious and usually new scheme or angle

   c : a trick or device used to attract business or attention

s

Dictionary.com

noun

1. an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, especially one designed to attract attention or increase appeal.

2. a concealed, usually devious aspect or feature of something, as a plan or deal: An offer that good must have a gimmick in it somewhere.

3. a hidden mechanical device by which a magician works a trick or a gambler controls a game of chance.

4. Electronics Informal. a capacitor formed by intertwining two insulated wires.

verb (used with object)

5. to equip or embellish with unnecessary features, especially in order to increase salability, acceptance, etc. (often followed by up  ): to gimmick up a sports car with chrome and racing stripes.

s

Thesaurus.com

Definition: contrived object; scheme

Synonyms: aid, apparatus, artifice, catch, concern, counterfeit, deceit, device, dodge*, fake, feint, fixture, fun, gadget, gambit, game, gizmo, imposture, instrument, jest, maneuver, means, method, ploy, ruse, secret, shift, sport, stratagem, stunt, trick, widget, wile

s

American Heritage dictionary:

NOUN:

A device employed to cheat, deceive, or trick, especially a mechanism for the secret and dishonest control of gambling apparatus.

An innovative or unusual mechanical contrivance; a gadget.

An innovative stratagem or scheme employed especially to promote a project: an advertising gimmick.

A significant feature that is obscured, misrepresented, or not readily evident; a catch.

A small object whose name does not come readily to mind.

TRANSITIVE VERB:

gim·micked, gim·mick·ing, gim·micks

To add gimmicks to; clutter with gadgets or attention-getting details. Often used with up.

To change or affect by means of a gimmick.

 

In all cases, especially clear when looking at the thesaurus, is there a concept of trickery or limited functionality. You can say that about a mood ring, for example, but not about the Wii-mote which has serious applications in the world of interactive entertainment.


Trickery is one of the uses of a gimmick, but is not the sole definition of what makes something a gimmick. Some gimmicks are made with hidden purposes, some are just novel devices. Nothing said here desputes what I am saying, just showing variations of what the term gimmick means. I bolded the ones that I am talking about.



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S.T.A.G.E. said:

Trickery is one of the uses of a gimmick, but is not the sole definition of what makes something a gimmick. Some gimmicks are made with hidden purposes, some are just novel devices. Nothing said here desputes what I am saying, just showing variations of what the term gimmick means. I bolded the ones that I am talking about.

The problem with the ones you bolded is that the wii does much more than introduce novelty (gadget) and pursue business appeal.

Functionally speaking, it has important implications in the world of interactive entertainment and denial of that is to display a lack of understanding as to the fundamentals of interactive entertainment. One of them being interaction with virtual objects.

Therefore, it is neither purely a gadget, nor is it a gimmick.

Moreover, the term gimmick can't be read without consideration of its synonyms, as given by the thesaurus. To call something a gimmick is to convey the meanings of its synonyms. You can't deny the natural tendancy to liken terms used to their synonyms. Gimmick as a term is loaded with them.



happydolphin said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Trickery is one of the uses of a gimmick, but is not the sole definition of what makes something a gimmick. Some gimmicks are made with hidden purposes, some are just novel devices. Nothing said here desputes what I am saying, just showing variations of what the term gimmick means. I bolded the ones that I am talking about.

The problem with the ones you bolded is that the wii does much more than introduce novelty (gadget) and pursue business appeal.

Functionally speaking, it has important implications in the world of interactive entertainment and denial of that is to display a lack of understanding as to the fundamentals of interactive entertainment. One of them being interaction with virtual objects.

Therefore, it is neither purely a gadget, nor is it a gimmick.

Moreover, the term gimmick can't be read without consideration of its synonyms, as given by the thesaurus. To call something a gimmick is to convey the meanings of its synonyms. You can't deny the natural tendancy to liken terms used to their synonyms. Gimmick as a term is loaded with them.


The Wii was a fad which helped Nintendo profit greatly for its times, but third parties barely respected it and didnt see it as a stable way of gaming in the future and obviously Nintendo didnt either as they moved onto the next fad, which is tablets. Controllers are it until it can be thrown off by a new way to game. Kinect, Wiimote and the move are all gimmicks. The Move is the most accurate of them all and can play a blend o both the Wii and Kinect games but having no games to prove its point. Lost cause because that would've been the only device to prove its worth in the long run but fail...so all of them fail.



S.T.A.G.E. said:

The Wii was a fad which helped Nintendo profit greatly for its times, but third parties barely respected it and didnt see it as a stable way of gaming in the future and obviously Nintendo didnt either as they moved onto the next fad, which is tablets. Controllers are it until it can be thrown off by a new way to game. Kinect, Wiimote and the move are all gimmicks. The Move is the most accurate of them all and can play a blend o both the Wii and Kinect games but having no games to prove its point. Lost cause because that would've been the only device to prove its worth in the long run but fail...so all of them fail.

@underlined. Nintendo is still strongly supporting the Wiimote in the U, they never abandoned the tech....

I can't believe this.

It's also way too early to call it a fad, as these technologies are still in use. Pokemon was being called a fad after its first iteration as well, and was not respected by the gaming media (I remember I was there). It is still selling boatloads.

Also, whether 3rd parties respect it or not does not make it a fad. 3rd parties don't respect Nintendo as a whole, let alone the U itself, so is Nintendo a fad? Last time I checked they're the oldest company in the business, also the ones doing video games for the longest time. Is the U a fad? It incorporates everything a console incorporates, plus new methods of control, after all.

The move was to prove its worth in the long run but not the Kinect (with its upcoming 2.0) and not the Wiimote, with its plus upgrade? You make no sense and are utterly biased. This is not an insult, it is just a constatation of facts. The above post proves it.

"Loyalty-free gaming movement" my ass.



happydolphin said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

The Wii was a fad which helped Nintendo profit greatly for its times, but third parties barely respected it and didnt see it as a stable way of gaming in the future and obviously Nintendo didnt either as they moved onto the next fad, which is tablets. Controllers are it until it can be thrown off by a new way to game. Kinect, Wiimote and the move are all gimmicks. The Move is the most accurate of them all and can play a blend o both the Wii and Kinect games but having no games to prove its point. Lost cause because that would've been the only device to prove its worth in the long run but fail...so all of them fail.

@underlined. Nintendo is still strongly supporting the Wiimote in the U, they never abandoned the tech....

I can't believe this.

It's also way too early to call it a fad, as these technologies are still in use. Pokemon was being called a fad after its first iteration as well, and was not respected by the gaming media (I remember I was there). It is still selling boatloads.

Also, whether 3rd parties respect it or not does not make it a fad. 3rd parties don't respect Nintendo as a whole, let alone the U itself, so is the U a fad? It incorporates everything a console incorporates, plus new methods of control, after all.

The move was to prove its worth in the long run but not the Kinect (with its upcoming 2.0) and not the Wiimote, with its plus upgrade? You make no sense and are utterly biased. This is not an insult, it is just a constatation of facts. The above post proves it.


The Kinect has not proved its ability to play hardcore games no matter how powerful the camera becomes. The Wii did very well but is still limited without a camera to add your essence into the game you are playing. The Move does both and can play hardcore titles  accurately without having to have a controller pad. Yes....stating facts makes me biased. Sony has been working on using altenrate devices to push the casual experience and make gaming easier for them since 2001 and the Move/PSEye combo was the culmination of their efforts. When they made the Eyetoy it was only about as good as the Kinect, which is powerful but cannot control the 3D space. In 2004 they started working on the Move.

Secondly, Pokemon is not a fad, its a culturally Iconic brand. Iconic brands are not fads...fads fade off into the sunset after a gen or less, true trailblazers stay in the game and influence stable development, like when Nintendo added the analog stick. Without it Camera movement would not be able to replicate the movement of a mouse on the X, Y Axis. That is adding to the overall experience and is not a gimmick. It is here to stay and still going strong.



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S.T.A.G.E. said:

The Kinect has not proved its ability to play hardcore games no matter how powerful the camera becomes. The Wii did very well but is still limited without a camera to add your essence into the game you are playing. The Move does both and can play hardcore titles  accurately without having to have a controller pad. Yes....stating facts makes me biased. Sony has been working on using altenrate devices to push the casual experience and make gaming easier for them since 2001 and the Move/PSEye combo was the culmination of their efforts. When they made the Eyetoy it was only about as good as the Kinect, which is powerful but cannot control the 3D space. In 2004 they started working on the Move.

Secondly, Pokemon is not a fad, its a culturally Iconic brand. Iconic brands are not fads...fads fade off into the sunset after a gen or less, true trailblazers stay in the game and influence stable development, like when Nintendo added the analog stick. Without it Camera movement would not be able to replicate the movement of a mouse on the X, Y Axis. That is adding to the overall experience and is not a gimmick. It is here to stay and still going strong.

At the time pokemon was in its infancy, people were calling it a fad, much like is being done here with the Wiimote and Kinect. You can't judge something as a fad until much later. Also, some things may be judged as fads only because they were not properly managed. A great example of this was tablets, before Apple came in and did it right. Were tablets fads? No they weren't, but the people who marketted it did such a bad job that they failed hard. A failure is not a fad. A fad fades away for lack of intrinsic value.

For some reason the Move is exempt because it employs a more precise technology (which is debatable), as the Motion+ is also the culmination of years of experimenting at Nintendo.

The analog stick proved itself, as can these other forms of interaction and control. The Wiimote was used in games like Link's Crossbow Training, Metroid Prime Corruption, Zelda Skyward Sword, Twilight Princess, Red Steel and many others (Trauma Center, etc.). To say it was not used in core games is false.

The Kinect is still in its infancy and engaging uses are likely to come over time. I have never used it myself so I don't know, ask a MS fan to argue that one.



happydolphin said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

The Kinect has not proved its ability to play hardcore games no matter how powerful the camera becomes. The Wii did very well but is still limited without a camera to add your essence into the game you are playing. The Move does both and can play hardcore titles  accurately without having to have a controller pad. Yes....stating facts makes me biased. Sony has been working on using altenrate devices to push the casual experience and make gaming easier for them since 2001 and the Move/PSEye combo was the culmination of their efforts. When they made the Eyetoy it was only about as good as the Kinect, which is powerful but cannot control the 3D space. In 2004 they started working on the Move.

Secondly, Pokemon is not a fad, its a culturally Iconic brand. Iconic brands are not fads...fads fade off into the sunset after a gen or less, true trailblazers stay in the game and influence stable development, like when Nintendo added the analog stick. Without it Camera movement would not be able to replicate the movement of a mouse on the X, Y Axis. That is adding to the overall experience and is not a gimmick. It is here to stay and still going strong.

At the time pokemon was in its infancy, people were calling it a fad, much like is being done here with the Wiimote and Kinect. You can't judge something as a fad until much later. Also, some things may be judged as fads only because they were not properly managed. A great example of this was tablets, before Apple came in and did it right. Were tablets fads? No they weren't, but the people who marketted it did such a bad job that they failed hard. A failure is not a fad. A fad fades away for lack of intrinsic value.

For some reason the Move is exempt because it employs a more precise technology (which is debatable), as the Motion+ is also the culmination of years of experimenting at Nintendo.

The analog stick proved itself, as can these other forms of interaction and control. The Wiimote was used in games like Link's Crossbow Training, Metroid Prime Corruption, Zelda Skyward Sword, Twilight Princess, Red Steel and many others (Trauma Center, etc.). To say it was not used in core games is false.

The Kinect is still in its infancy and engaging uses are likely to come over time. I have never used it myself so I don't know, ask a MS fan to argue that one.


People who call Pokemon a fad after the duration of its success are essentially clueless. 

Please debate the precise nature of the Move. I would love to see you try.

The Kinect is not in its infancy...its trying to prove a fallacy....that a camera device in the current time can control a game in costricted space without a peripheral device. Sony knew this well before the Kinect ever came out because they started the trend, turned down the makers of the Kinect on their tech because it was useless, and then went on to evolve the tech to create a more meaningful experience on core games. In the end it was pointless because they didnt create games for such great tech. Dumb move Sony....very dumb. Its just like the Vita...which is the best technical handheld money can buy but has no proper software. Who gives a crap if there are no games?



S.T.A.G.E. said:

People who call Pokemon a fad after the duration of its success are essentially clueless. 

Please debate the precise nature of the Move. I would love to see you try.

The Kinect is not in its infancy...its trying to prove a fallacy....that a camera device in the current time can control a game in costricted space without a peripheral device. Sony knew this well before the Kinect ever came out because they started the trend, turned down the makers of the Kinect on their tech because it was useless, and then went on to evolve the tech to create a more meaningful experience on core games. In the end it was pointless because they didnt create games for such great tech. Dumb move Sony....very dumb. Its just like the Vita...which is the best technical handheld money can buy but has no proper software. Who gives a crap if there are no games?

@bold. And you are doing the very same with the Wii. The system sold in its lifetime very well so long as it was supported with games.

http://www.vgchartz.com/tools/hw_date.php (Choose only Wii, choose Date = All)

I've played enough games with the Wiimotion+ (Resort, Skyward Sword) to tell you that it work precisely. It has its kinks but they are always improving their software wrappers around the hardware. Each game makes a varied accurate use of the technology. I've never used move so I won't judge on hands-on experience. I'm pretty sure it's debatable but fair enough since you want to see me try, I won't.

Your kinect talk is thin air. They have Fable Journey (which employed hands-free gaming), Kinect Adventures (which sold 20m units I might add) and many other high-selling games which make use of the tech. So I'm sorry if the market highly disagrees with you.



happydolphin said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

People who call Pokemon a fad after the duration of its success are essentially clueless. 

Please debate the precise nature of the Move. I would love to see you try.

The Kinect is not in its infancy...its trying to prove a fallacy....that a camera device in the current time can control a game in costricted space without a peripheral device. Sony knew this well before the Kinect ever came out because they started the trend, turned down the makers of the Kinect on their tech because it was useless, and then went on to evolve the tech to create a more meaningful experience on core games. In the end it was pointless because they didnt create games for such great tech. Dumb move Sony....very dumb. Its just like the Vita...which is the best technical handheld money can buy but has no proper software. Who gives a crap if there are no games?

@bold. And you are doing the very same with the Wii. The system sold in its lifetime very well so long as it was supported with games.

http://www.vgchartz.com/tools/hw_date.php (Choose only Wii, choose Date = All)

I've played enough games with the Wiimotion+ (Resort, Skyward Sword) to tell you that it work precisely. It has its kinks but they are always improving their software wrappers around the hardware. Each game makes a varied accurate use of the technology. I've never used move so I won't judge on hands-on experience. I'm pretty sure it's debatable but fair enough since you want to see me try, I won't.

Your kinect talk is thin air. They have Fable Journey (which employed hands-free gaming), Kinect Adventures (which sold 20m units I might add) and many other high-selling games which make use of the tech. So I'm sorry if the market highly disagrees with you.


The Wii stagnated once the Kinect fad started in America. The casuals eyes quickly shifted in 2010 and it was saving the 360's rear through to 2012. The Wii launched in 2006 and its last great year was 2010 before it dropped off the map in sales. 2011 was the decline year.

Fable the Journey...is a joke. I cannot believe you're using this as an argument.

Kinect Adventures was bundled with Kinect systems, of course it sold 20 million copies.

Yes...the market hates that I pay attention to it.



S.T.A.G.E. said:

The Wii stagnated once the Kinect fad started in America. The casuals eyes quickly shifted in 2010 and it was saving the 360's rear through to 2012. The Wii launched in 2006 and its last great year was 2010 before it dropped off the map in sales. 2011 was the decline year.

Fable the Journey...is a joke. I cannot believe you're using this as an argument.

Kinect Adventures was bundled with Kinect systems, of course it sold 20 million copies.

Yes...the market hates that I pay attention to it.

The Wii stagnated once the system stopped being properly supported. Also, 2010 only significantly beats 2011 over the holiday period. (graph)

And if your argument is true, then the casuals migrated to the Kinect, which means that there is a market for motion controls.

Fable the Journey is as much of a joke as wonderbook, but it doesn't change the fact that it displays important proposals for interactive entertainment. Of course in time the proposals will be refined and improved.

Kinect Adventures was bundled with kinect systems as an add-on, which means that people wanted the kinect add-on (and its flagship game). Which means there was a considerable market for the add-on.

Also, regarding your move bias, even if the move is more accurate than the Wiimotion+, the Wiimotion+ is still very accurate and the better accuracy of the move doesn't render motion+ a fad or a gimmick and doesn't place it in some kind of other category that makes it incapable of proving its worth over time.