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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Should Nintendo bring back the Wii-style marketing?

happydolphin said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

The Wii stagnated once the Kinect fad started in America. The casuals eyes quickly shifted in 2010 and it was saving the 360's rear through to 2012. The Wii launched in 2006 and its last great year was 2010 before it dropped off the map in sales. 2011 was the decline year.

Fable the Journey...is a joke. I cannot believe you're using this as an argument.

Kinect Adventures was bundled with Kinect systems, of course it sold 20 million copies.

Yes...the market hates that I pay attention to it.

The Wii stagnated once the system stopped being properly supported. Also, 2010 only significantly beats 2011 over the holiday period. (graph)

And if your argument is true, then the casuals migrated to the Kinect, which means that there is a market for motion controls.

Fable the Journey is as much of a joke as wonderbook, but it doesn't change the fact that it displays important proposals for interactive entertainment. Of course in time the proposals will be refined and improved.

Kinect Adventures was bundled with kinect systems as an add-on, which means that people wanted the kinect add-on (and its flagship game). Which means there was a considerable market for the add-on.

Also, regarding your move bias, even if the move is more accurate than the Wiimotion+, the Wiimotion+ is still very accurate and the better accuracy of the move doesn't render motion+ a fad or a gimmick and doesn't place it in some kind of other category that makes it incapable of proving its worth over time.


There is a market for fads...but thats just what a fad is...a popular style, dance, tech or product thats popularity is only meant to last a short period of time. The Wii lasted longer than the Kinect because Nintendo found ways to keep it fresh for four years and then dropped proper support after Wii Fit.

Im not a fanboy of Sony...I dont give a crap about the Wonderbook so don't expect me to defend it. I could care less about any of the motion control devices let alone the Vita. I am just stating that the Move was the more well thought out piece of tech and it took a generation and a half of development to figure out how to make it work properly.



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S.T.A.G.E. said:

There is a market for fads...but thats just what a fad is...a popular style, dance, tech or product thats popularity is only meant to last a short period of time. The Wii lasted longer than the Kinect because Nintendo found ways to keep it fresh for four years and then dropped proper support after Wii Fit.

Im not a fanboy of Sony...I dont give a crap about the Wonderbook so don't expect me to defend it. I could care less about any of the motion control devices let alone the Vita. I am just stating that the Move was the more well thought out piece of tech and it took a generation and a half of development to figure out how to make it work properly.

Again, too early to call anything a fad. Your arguments are falling from under your feet. First you say "People who call Pokemon a fad after the duration of its success are essentially clueless.", I'm saying you're just as clueless as them, and now you're telling me there is a market for fads.

Nintendo didn't find a way to keep it fresh, any new input control cannot survive without some games to show their value. The same could be said about the analog stick or any other form of input presented so far.

You might not be a Sony fanboy but you most certainly are biased. You claim that the Move is the only one to be able to prove its worth over time thus making it not a fad, and claiming that the Wiimote+ and Kinect don't have that honor. That's heavily biased. Even if the move is more precise it doesn't change the fact that the Motion+ is very precise, and has its advantages over the move as well (can be played in a dark room, doesn't require as much calibration, much better price proposition).



happydolphin said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

There is a market for fads...but thats just what a fad is...a popular style, dance, tech or product thats popularity is only meant to last a short period of time. The Wii lasted longer than the Kinect because Nintendo found ways to keep it fresh for four years and then dropped proper support after Wii Fit.

Im not a fanboy of Sony...I dont give a crap about the Wonderbook so don't expect me to defend it. I could care less about any of the motion control devices let alone the Vita. I am just stating that the Move was the more well thought out piece of tech and it took a generation and a half of development to figure out how to make it work properly.

Again, too early to call anything a fad. Your arguments are falling from under your feet. First you say "People who call Pokemon a fad after the duration of its success are essentially clueless.", I'm saying you're just as clueless as them, and now you're telling me there is a market for fads.

Nintendo didn't find a way to keep it fresh, any new input control cannot survive without some games to show their value. The same could be said about the analog stick or any other form of input presented so far.

You might not be a Sony fanboy but you most certainly are biased. You claim that the Move is the only one to be able to prove its worth over time thus making it not a fad, and claiming that the Wiimote+ and Kinect don't have that honor. That's heavily biased. Even if the move is more precise it doesn't change the fact that the Motion+ is very precise, and has its advantages over the move as well (can be played in a dark room, doesn't require as much calibration, much better price proposition).


Ok if I am so clueless....why isnt the Wii U attaining the same success as the Wii? Its Obvious as to why. Answer the question. I know why.



S.T.A.G.E. said:

Ok if I am so clueless....why isnt the Wii U attaining the same success as the Wii? Its Obvious as to why. Answer the question. I know why.

We don't know yet. It could be the price-point, it could be the marketting, it could be brand confusion, it could be the library (lack thereof), it could really be anything. The motion controls on the Wii did enjoy an initial boom, but a market survived and continued to buy the games and systems 2-3 years down the road. We don't know when the market will positively respond to the U but right now it seems like the proposition isn't right. We don't know exactly why but many of us speculate that it's due to price and lack of games, and not unreasonably so.

The 3DS is selling well with its 3D, does that mean that 3D isn't a gimmick, that touch controls isn't a gimmick?

If you want to judge the survival of motion controls in the U, you need to evaluate the success of motion controlled games. Example: Nintendogs didn't do well on 3DS, could that indicate that touch controls on the DS are no longer viable? What other heavily touch-based games are on the 3DS which are doing well, not so well? That's how you judge it.



happydolphin said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Ok if I am so clueless....why isnt the Wii U attaining the same success as the Wii? Its Obvious as to why. Answer the question. I know why.

We don't know yet. It could be the price-point, it could be the marketting, it could be brand confusion, it could be the library (lack thereof), it could really be anything. The motion controls on the Wii did enjoy an initial boom, but a market survived and continued to buy the games and systems 2-3 years down the road. We don't know when the market will positively respond to the U but right now it seems like the proposition isn't right. We don't know exactly why but many of us speculate that it's due to price and lack of games, and not unreasonably so.

The 3DS is selling well with its 3D, does that mean that 3D isn't a gimmick, that touch controls isn't a gimmick?

If you want to judge the survival of motion controls in the U, you need to evaluate the success of motion controlled games. Example: Nintendogs didn't do well on 3DS, could that indicate that touch controls on the DS are no longer viable? What other heavily touch-based games are on the 3DS which are doing well, not so well? That's how you judge it.


We already know why Wii U sells the way it does and hasnt gained casual reception.

Primarily speaking, you cannot win over the casuals with a device they've already bought outside the gaming industry that does more than what Nintendo is offering. If you create a gimmick to start a fad they cannot have participated in this event, which Apple had made accessible to them for years. The difference between the IPad & Android tablets and Nintendos tablet does not apply to their life. Tablets are starting to overwhelm the laptop market as we speak and by 2016 they will have outpaced them in sales.

Nintendo was late to the party and expected casuals to pay for a device that they could get for nearly the same price via android, get cheaper, simpler games and enjoy them without having to pay as much. Nintendo was obviously not paying attention to what makes casuals tick. They keep what is practical to their lives and a device like the Wii was disposable, hence why they are called casual. Gaming is not primary to them as it is for us. It bears no practicality in their life compared to us who now see the gaming consoles as the true center of our entertainment experience.

The third problem therin, is the issue with third party games and the power gap between the Wii U and the last gen consoles. Gamers outside of Nintendo fans have no been convinced that the Wii U is worth it just yet. The first party games need to mount up before the sales will rise. They will rise....trust me...but they will halt. Nintendo needs these games to launch on a steady time table towards the end of 2014 without any droughts, which they've already failed at.

Theres more...but I will await your response. I might respond later...who knows.



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S.T.A.G.E. said:

We already know why Wii U sells the way it does and hasnt gained casual reception.

1. Primarily speaking, you cannot win over the casuals with a device they've already bought outside the gaming industry that does more than what Nintendo is offering. If you create a gimmick to start a fad they cannot have participated in this event, which Apple had made accessible to them for years. The difference between the IPad & Android tablets and Nintendos tablet does not apply to their life. Tablets are starting to overwhelm the laptop market as we speak and by 2016 they will have outpaced them in sales.

2. Nintendo was late to the party and expected casuals to pay for a device that they could get for nearly the same price via android, get cheaper, simpler games and enjoy them without having to pay as much. Nintendo was obviously not paying attention to what makes casuals tick. They keep what is practical to their lives and a device like the Wii was disposable, hence why they are called casual. Gaming is not primary to them as it is for us. It bears no practicality in their life compared to us who now see the gaming consoles as the true center of our entertainment experience.

3. The third problem therin, is the issue with third party games and the power gap between the Wii U and the last gen consoles. Gamers outside of Nintendo fans have no been convinced that the Wii U is worth it just yet. The first party games need to mount up before the sales will rise. They will rise....trust me...but they will halt. Nintendo needs these games to launch on a steady time table towards the end of 2014 without any droughts, which they've already failed at.

Theres more...but I will await your response. I might response later...who knows.

1. You don't know if that is the true reason. When Nintendo launched the Wii, they launched it 100$ cheaper with an instant-hit which was Wii Sports. Coming off a failure to support the Wii in 2011-2012, Nintendo comes with Nintendoland, a hard sell to begin with. It's based off of gaming IPs and is very different in nature from Wii Sports, which in its fiber was a catering to the non-gamer, in both controls and theme. It was included with EVERY Wii at a reasonable price at the time, especially in contrast with the alternatives at the time. Now, the U is competing with both the 360 and the PS3, while selling at a high price with two bundles. The Wii kicks its ass in a New York minute. All the talk of tablets and smartphones is the same old shit we've been hearing since the game boy color. 

2. Nintendo wasn't late to any party. They offer games that Android doesn't, and that always was true and always will be true. The touch control is a response to tablets but also a new form of input for home consoles, it isn't new to them though, they've had touch controls on the DS since 2004.

3. All Nintendo systems have issues with 3rd party games until Nintendo proves the worth of their console, it's always been like this; the U is no exception. I'm not sure why you're predisposed to believe that sales will halt but I'm not sure I can help it.



happydolphin said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

We already know why Wii U sells the way it does and hasnt gained casual reception.

1. Primarily speaking, you cannot win over the casuals with a device they've already bought outside the gaming industry that does more than what Nintendo is offering. If you create a gimmick to start a fad they cannot have participated in this event, which Apple had made accessible to them for years. The difference between the IPad & Android tablets and Nintendos tablet does not apply to their life. Tablets are starting to overwhelm the laptop market as we speak and by 2016 they will have outpaced them in sales.

2. Nintendo was late to the party and expected casuals to pay for a device that they could get for nearly the same price via android, get cheaper, simpler games and enjoy them without having to pay as much. Nintendo was obviously not paying attention to what makes casuals tick. They keep what is practical to their lives and a device like the Wii was disposable, hence why they are called casual. Gaming is not primary to them as it is for us. It bears no practicality in their life compared to us who now see the gaming consoles as the true center of our entertainment experience.

3. The third problem therin, is the issue with third party games and the power gap between the Wii U and the last gen consoles. Gamers outside of Nintendo fans have no been convinced that the Wii U is worth it just yet. The first party games need to mount up before the sales will rise. They will rise....trust me...but they will halt. Nintendo needs these games to launch on a steady time table towards the end of 2014 without any droughts, which they've already failed at.

Theres more...but I will await your response. I might response later...who knows.

1. You don't know if that is the true reason. When Nintendo launched the Wii, they launched it 100$ cheaper with an instant-hit which was Wii Sports. Coming off a failure to support the Wii in 2011-2012, Nintendo comes with Nintendoland, a hard sell to begin with. It's based off of gaming IPs and is very different in nature from Wii Sports, which in its fiber was a catering to the non-gamer, in both controls and theme. It was included with EVERY Wii at a reasonable price at the time, especially in contrast with the alternatives at the time. Now, the U is competing with both the 360 and the PS3, while selling at a high price with two bundles. The Wii kicks its ass in a New York minute. All the talk of tablets and smartphones is the same old shit we've been hearing since the game boy color. 

2. Nintendo wasn't late to any party. They offer games that Android doesn't, and that always was true and always will be true. The touch control is a response to tablets but also a new form of input for home consoles, it isn't new to them though, they've had touch controls on the DS since 2004.

3. All Nintendo systems have issues with 3rd party games until Nintendo proves the worth of their console, it's always been like this the U is no exception. I'm not sure why you're predisposed to believe that sales will halt but I'm not sure I can help it.


1. Tablets being seen as more practical by casuals is the primary reason why the casuals wont give it the time of day. Nintendo needs to make a practical tablet with the ability to add things. This is where Microsoft has the advantage.

2. Nintendo didnt start the tablet tend...therefore they are late to the part, just like Microsoft was late to the Zune party trying to tear into Apples Ipod marketshare and failing. 

3. The third party support for the Wii U is a joke...stop defending it. Even when the Wii was selling well third parties still couldnt take the hardware seriously outside of Ubisoft. The U has current gen support and very little of it, this is a change but Nintendo needs to do more as far as tech is concerned, but they wont initial profit to do it.

I know you're a fan of Nintendo, but they get things wrong just like everyone else. Accept this fact.



Fad and gimmick are such loose terms open to so much interpretation, it's not worth arguing over.

We'll see if Kinect 2 goes anywhere now that it's with EVERY system, could be interesting in terms of some unique software.

Move/Eye is DOA not being bundled.

I would love to have seen more software that uses Wii motion +. Wii Sports was awesome using the standard motion (never have I seen people want to play in groups so bad, bowling being a highlight), Zelda SS was awesome use of the motion +. Would love to have seen more software there, problem is that Nintendo just can't keep up in terms of cranking out software.

 

Now that the new controller is their focus not sure what that means for the future of motion +.



For the record I'm going to start calling people on this site nerds and everyone else normal. Just because the terms "casuals" and "core" / "hardcore" are annoying.



g911turbo said:

Fad and gimmick are such loose terms open to so much interpretation, it's not worth arguing over.

We'll see if Kinect 2 goes anywhere now that it's with EVERY system, could be interesting in terms of some unique software.

Move/Eye is DOA not being bundled.

I would love to have seen more software that uses Wii motion +. Wii Sports was awesome using the standard motion (never have I seen people want to play in groups so bad, bowling being a highlight), Zelda SS was awesome use of the motion +. Would love to have seen more software there, problem is that Nintendo just can't keep up in terms of cranking out software.

 

Now that the new controller is their focus not sure what that means for the future of motion +.

That time has passed. Everyone has somewhat milked what the Wii created. New generation and the fad is over.