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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Final Fantasy has lost its way

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Pristine20 on 13 June 2013
happydolphin said:
Pristine20 said:
I hate to say it but S-E's biggest problem is listening to fans not the other way around strangely. The FF fanbase is the most unpleaseable in the history of mankind. I hope they just make the best game they can and those of us who enjoy great games will enjoy it. Regardless of whether it utilizes the battle system from the 90s or even becomes an action game.

Good game is good, end of story

I would never argue that this wouldn't be an interesting spin-off.

It just isn't Final Fantasy proper, to me. You're free to disagree, it doesn't make you a lesser gamer or fan.

But one thing you can't argue is that this is usual or the FF way. I'm sorry you just can't.


So please  enlighten me, exactly what is the FF way? Last I checked, each iteration was different. At the end of the day, isn't the end goal to make a good JRPG? If the game is good, that mission is accomplished and would be better than making junk in the pursuit of nostalgia.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

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happydolphin on 13 June 2013

^Follow this thread with dharh for the answer. It's not about nostalgia, it's about identity. Take your favorite game and radically alter it from top to bottom, see if you'll be happy.

dharh said:

I've read your replies and you are simply wrong. When it comes to FF all things are on the table except that it still must 'feel' like an RPG and it must be epic. So long as they accomplish that being turn based is simply not a factor.

I've seen you say in this thread that people are just too young to remember. I'm not and I still disagree with you.

Prior to FFXIII and FFXV they have pushed the bounderies of the combat system acouple times. FFXII with the ability program your characters and have automated combat encounters. FFVII they had the active time battle system with each character having a (visible) timer, allowing you to switch characters who've had their timer ready, they even let you switch between Wait and Active which basically did away with turned based aspect of the enemy altogether and turned it into a hybrid active battle system, FFIV was the first to implement that style of system. FFX went to a queued system, as im sure you're well aware since you're playing right now, which actually more resemlbes the traditional system you want, in a new way.

There have been streaks of using the same style system for multiple releases, but it has never been the exact same combat system throughout the series. The evolution of the series has been plain as day. If you take a minute to look at it you can see the steps they have taken from FFX to FFXII to FFXIII and now to FFXV.

Okay, let me clarify (and good post btw). Even though since FFIV we have the option to have characters and monsters either play in turn or wait their turn (when timer runs out), in all cases there is the concept of a turn. Even in FFXII which I have yet to play does that delay exist. I did not see any of that in FFXV. I was lost. It was an action game and I didn't recognize FF at all. That is as much of a genre-defining aspect as MMO features in FFXI and XIV. Nothing else than those two this far truly defied FF in its genre, the only arguable one is XII I believe.

This answers RedCutPoison



dharh on 13 June 2013
happydolphin said:

^Follow this thread with dharh for the answer. It's not about nostalgia, it's about identity. Take your favorite game and radically alter it from top to bottom, see if you'll be happy.

dharh said:

I've read your replies and you are simply wrong. When it comes to FF all things are on the table except that it still must 'feel' like an RPG and it must be epic. So long as they accomplish that being turn based is simply not a factor.

I've seen you say in this thread that people are just too young to remember. I'm not and I still disagree with you.

Prior to FFXIII and FFXV they have pushed the bounderies of the combat system acouple times. FFXII with the ability program your characters and have automated combat encounters. FFVII they had the active time battle system with each character having a (visible) timer, allowing you to switch characters who've had their timer ready, they even let you switch between Wait and Active which basically did away with turned based aspect of the enemy altogether and turned it into a hybrid active battle system, FFIV was the first to implement that style of system. FFX went to a queued system, as im sure you're well aware since you're playing right now, which actually more resemlbes the traditional system you want, in a new way.

There have been streaks of using the same style system for multiple releases, but it has never been the exact same combat system throughout the series. The evolution of the series has been plain as day. If you take a minute to look at it you can see the steps they have taken from FFX to FFXII to FFXIII and now to FFXV.

Okay, let me clarify (and good post btw). Even though since FFIV we have the option to have characters and monsters either play in turn or wait their turn (when timer runs out), in all cases there is the concept of a turn. Even in FFXII which I have yet to play does that delay exist. I did not see any of that in FFXV. I was lost. It was an action game and I didn't recognize FF at all. That is as much of a genre-defining aspect as MMO features in FFXI and XIV. Nothing else than those two this far truly defied FF in its genre, the only arguable one is XII I believe.

This answers RedCutPoison


I believe FFXV is using a Tales of Whatever style combat system where you can attach certain abilities to buttons (and button combos) and create combo attacks when you chain them together. The Turn each character/enemy takes is just further under the hood than it has been in the past.



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.
kupomogli on 13 June 2013

I thought the FF15 trailer looked pretty awesome. I don't care what the game plays like as long as it's good.

I agree with you that Final Fantasy has lost it's way, but not based on the same thing you're basing it on. I've already went into depth in another thread, but the last four main Final Fantasy games have been garbage in terms of enjoyment in my opinion. 10, 11, 12, and 13. Games like the Wii Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles titles, My Life as a King, My Life as a Dark Lord. Crisis Core which isn't terrible but gameplay is repetitive and the story mostly sucked. Final Fantasy Theatrythm and all the other overpriced microtransaction games that aren't any good. This in my opinion all shows how Final Fantasy has lost its way.

There have been good games though. I actually liked Dirge of Cerberus. It might have had some stupid crap like double jump that doesn't do anything and the story might not have been very good, but it was a very well done third person shooter that was fun to play. A ton of challenge that unlocked after beating the game. Dissidia Final Fantasy is extremely unbalanced but an incredibly fun fighting game. Storyline is complete garbage, but it's a fun game, especially when playing against human players. Final Fantasy 10-2 had amazing gameplay, but you might notice a theme. Just like the others, the storyline sucks. The last chapter of FF4 The After Years makes the game good.

So anyways. It's got a few titles that aren't remakes that are good, but the majority of their games suck. It's been 12 years since Final Fantasy 10 and most titles from that time to now have sucked. Maybe Sakaguchi took all the key members of Squaresoft when he left to create Mistwalker. We know he took some of them. This could be the reason Square Enix has sucked balls for the last 10-12 years whenever they left.



HokageTenshi on 13 June 2013
VXIII said:
HokageTenshi said:

FFXV is going for western RPG style thats what their direction is i guess...

You mean HUGE but empty world, soulless and nameless main character,  and storyless plot? 

 

...No

i mean the fully action battle system that was shown from the trailers...



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adriane23 on 13 June 2013
osed125 said:
adriane23 said:

Don't care if it did. It's better than FFXIII.

Besides, Final Fantasy lost it's way when FFX was released.

How do you know that without playing it?

OT: I feel the same as you, but I moved on after FF X. I decided to ignore all FF games at this point, at least until they bring a true turn based RPG

My soul told me.



I am the Playstation Avenger.

   

happydolphin on 13 June 2013
adriane23 said:
osed125 said:
adriane23 said:

Don't care if it did. It's better than FFXIII.

Besides, Final Fantasy lost it's way when FFX was released.

How do you know that without playing it?

OT: I feel the same as you, but I moved on after FF X. I decided to ignore all FF games at this point, at least until they bring a true turn based RPG

My soul told me.





A203D on 13 June 2013
happydolphin said:

^Follow this thread with dharh for the answer. It's not about nostalgia, it's about identity. Take your favorite game and radically alter it from top to bottom, see if you'll be happy.

Okay, let me clarify (and good post btw). Even though since FFIV we have the option to have characters and monsters either play in turn or wait their turn (when timer runs out), in all cases there is the concept of a turn. Even in FFXII which I have yet to play does that delay exist. I did not see any of that in FFXV. I was lost. It was an action game and I didn't recognize FF at all. That is as much of a genre-defining aspect as MMO features in FFXI and XIV. Nothing else than those two this far truly defied FF in its genre, the only arguable one is XII I believe.

This answers RedCutPoison

With regards to FF12. It did bring about many changes, some things were unsatisfactory; however at its core it was an  RPG. It was extremely deep RPG in many respects.

With regards to FF13, the developers admitted that it was never intended to be and RPG, but 'something new entirely'. They even went as far as to claim that Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 inspired the game. This is completely unacceptable, and its disgraceful to do something like that.

In the case of FF15; Square Enix originally set out to make a game called FF13 Versus, part of the FNC compliation. The reason the game was not origianlly called FF15 was because Square Enix felt that the game was too different from a traditional RPG to be considered a main line installment.

Fair enough. However the issue is that FF15 looks to be too far away from the traditiaonl RPG gameplay experience to be a main line Final Fantasy. It looks a lot like Devil May Cry, with God of War quick time events. Is it possible that the cost of 7 years of investment was too high to warrant this game to be a non-main line installment.

I think the main reason this is FF15 is because Square Enix know a game with the words FF13 on the box has a negative stigma. They said to themselves that they've lost a 7 year investment if this game has FF13 on the box. So they change the name on the box to avoid being assoicated with FF13, and to secure their 7 year investment. Its a dirty trick, and I believe that Hinorobu Sakaguchi would have never allowed this.



Birimbau on 13 June 2013

If there is an open world with this kind of quality: take my money!



happydolphin on 13 June 2013
A203D said:

With regards to FF12. It did bring about many changes, some things were unsatisfactory; however at its core it was an  RPG. It was extremely deep RPG in many respects.

With regards to FF13, the developers admitted that it was never intended to be and RPG, but 'something new entirely'. They even went as far as to claim that Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 inspired the game. This is completely unacceptable, and its disgraceful to do something like that.

In the case of FF15; Square Enix originally set out to make a game called FF13 Versus, part of the FNC compliation. The reason the game was not origianlly called FF15 was because Square Enix felt that the game was too different from a traditional RPG to be considered a main line installment.

Fair enough. However the issue is that FF15 looks to be too far away from the traditiaonl RPG gameplay experience to be a main line Final Fantasy. It looks a lot like Devil May Cry, with God of War quick time events. Is it possible that the cost of 7 years of investment was too high to warrant this game to be a non-main line installment.

I think the main reason this is FF15 is because Square Enix know a game with the words FF13 on the box has a negative stigma. They said to themselves that they've lost a 7 year investment if this game has FF13 on the box. So they change the name on the box to avoid being assoicated with FF13, and to secure their 7 year investment. Its a dirty trick, and I believe that Hinorobu Sakaguchi would have never allowed this.

Great post.