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Forums - Gaming - Anti-used gaming policy is good for gamers.

Conina on 09 June 2013
dane007 said:
 

 

Hence why pc gaming is not as big as console gaming. Hence why games from consoles do nto make it to pc.  

The PC platform is the one with the highest revenue:

http://news.xbox.com/2013/05/x360-aaron-greenberg-industry-growth

$12 billion "normal" games plus $8 billion social/browser games.

"Console gaming" can only top that if you count 360, PS3, Wii and WiiU sales together, each platform on its own can't compete.

And besides 1st-party-games, nearly every console game of the last years found its way on the PC: Alan Wake, Braid, Brütal Legend, Burnout Paradise, Condemned, Dark Souls, Fable 3, GTA IV + Episodes, L.A. Noire, Limbo, Lost Planet, Mass Effect 1, The Force Unleashed, World of Goo ...

Some IPs started console exclusive, but the later games were release the same day as the console versions: The Darkness 2, Dead Rising 2, Saints Row 2 + 3, Mass Effect 2 + 3...

The same goes in the other direction: Crysis, The Witcher 2, Diablo 3, Telltale Games adventures...

And with the new x86-based console generation, multiplatform-development should be much easier and cost-efficient than in the last decade... unless one of the console makers pays for exclusivity a PC-version is a given.



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Muffin31190 on 09 June 2013
dane007 said:

Haha you are forgetting that Witcher 2 retail version  had DRM to start with. All those who bought the retail copy at launch had drm in their copy which reduced the performance 50%. It took them awhile to remove it after a big outcry because the digital version of the game didn't have it.  They are hypocrites as tehy added it in the first place and no they are kissing as sbecause of how ma ny times their game have been pirated. Know your fact first before saying it :). No you didn't . I asked if right to free healthcare and education is not as important then gaming. You have yet to answer that.  I didn't say they have no right ot play games. I said that they wouldn't be thinking about gaming at all because of they other stuff to think about. Theres difference betwen not thinking about it and saying that they don't have the right to play. Dude gaming is like any other hobby. You got to be able to afford it in order to enjoy the hobby. Its likje PC gaming, Not everyone can enjoy because you need cash to upgrade the PC. Thats the sad fact of life. I would love if everyone can play but thats never going to happen. Actually it did effect them hence why they released witcher 2 on consoles. The game sold less then the original Witcher  due to piracy. 4.5 million extra copies for the company is quite a bit don't you think?  I think if it wasn't for realeasing it on consoles they wouldn't have released witcher 3. Don't forget its coming out on all console platforms as they know you can't pirate that easily on consoles so more money is made there. I am not completely supporting DRM.. There is good and Bad DRM. Sim city DRM is bad as what the drm is used for as promised by Maxis was a lie howwever if DRM cna be used to stop piracy then yes i will support it . MS is not punishign the consumer. That stuff have existed in every gen . you jsu thave to read teh EULA. The only difference is now teh publishers want to monitor it closely and to ensure you buy the new game. Just look at all the online passes. they removed it for this puproses and just wait till sony does it. AT least MS had the balls to admit  their policy to everyone unlike SONY who is hiding in the corner scared to  say anythign about their policy escept for giving vague answers.

"I think the average Human knows where their Priorities lie such as family, education, and for themselves to live" ... you even quoted it and you still dont see the answer, so Healthcare and Education are always top priorities. True you never said they have no right to gaming but you did say they shouldn't in which I took it as they have no buisness since they cant afford how gaming is going, but they do. Every gamer in the world wether they be poor or wealthy is involved in the industry, and so the industry should respect all gamers from all reaches.

You can call the Developers of the Wither Hypocrite's but the fact teat they have a whole gaming website that competes with steam and is DRM free, shows what their true nature is, and the fact that the witcher is coming too all console does not prove your point it only proves that the developers want to bring the franchise to a wider audience just like so many franchises have done before. And the Witcher 2 did not sell less then the original Witcher even if you do just count the Original PC sales.
http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=The+Witcher
sooooo .... "Know your fact first before saying it :)"


I do agree with how there is BAD DRM and Good DRM to combat piracy, I.E bad DRM with SimCity and Diablo 3, and Good DRM such as online passses for certain portions of the game such as Online Multi-player. But that does not mean we should Eliminate the Used game Market, as you shouldnt Punish the people who buy used games because a certain small group of people have Pirated Games. This doesnt happen in any of  the other entertainment industry's, such as movies and music so why should it happen to games.




AstroMaSSi on 09 June 2013

No way I can defend the greedy industry.



AstroMaSSi rules

oldschoolfool on 09 June 2013
crissindahouse said:
Carl2291 said:
Maybe if videogame developers didnt think they were working on the next big fucking Hollywood blockbuster, they wouldnt need mediocre games with small fanbases to sell 10 Million units.

The best way to increase profit, would be to actually start making videogames that people want to buy. Gaining consumer trust would be a start.

Stop cloning Call of Duty. Stop putting out unconvincing videogames. Stop developing games for 4-5 Years at a time. Stop putting out overpriced, shitty DLC. Stop putting DLC on the fucking disc. Stop advertising your product as something that it quite clearly isnt. Make a compelling product.

These companies need to stop blaming the consumer and look closer to home for the problems.

There is a reason why the Indie scene is doing so well right now. Its because they release new, good videogames, that dont cost a lot to make... And are worth the price you actually pay. Its controlled development and the likes of EA and Square Enix could learn a thing or two.

maybe consumers should stop asking for always better graphics then? people even complain already that xbox one is too weak and some even say that about ps4. but the same people don't want to pay for those extreme costs developers have because of that. they don't want dlc which is a way to get the enormous costs back, they don't want drm, they don't want higher game prices. gamers are against everything which could help developers but they still ask for "more power" all the time and already laugh about the possible graphics of xbox one. 

indie games are successful, but how many of them? don't you think for every successful story there are minimum the same amount of people who tried but failed with it? it's not as if we get 5000 indie games and all make a profit. you just don't hear about the indie developers which failed because they are all only a few guys big and nobody will talk about them. many guys just make an indie game in their freetime. if it's a success it's great and if not then, well, they still have another job... people who work for bigger developers or publishers don't have that. if they aren't successful they lose their jobs. but it's not easy to be successful with those costs you have nowadays. 

^^ I have to agree with this post. game companies are damed if they do and damed if they don't. 



20happyballs on 09 June 2013
oldschoolfool said:
crissindahouse said:
Carl2291 said:
Maybe if videogame developers didnt think they were working on the next big fucking Hollywood blockbuster, they wouldnt need mediocre games with small fanbases to sell 10 Million units.

The best way to increase profit, would be to actually start making videogames that people want to buy. Gaining consumer trust would be a start.

Stop cloning Call of Duty. Stop putting out unconvincing videogames. Stop developing games for 4-5 Years at a time. Stop putting out overpriced, shitty DLC. Stop putting DLC on the fucking disc. Stop advertising your product as something that it quite clearly isnt. Make a compelling product.

These companies need to stop blaming the consumer and look closer to home for the problems.

There is a reason why the Indie scene is doing so well right now. Its because they release new, good videogames, that dont cost a lot to make... And are worth the price you actually pay. Its controlled development and the likes of EA and Square Enix could learn a thing or two.

maybe consumers should stop asking for always better graphics then? people even complain already that xbox one is too weak and some even say that about ps4. but the same people don't want to pay for those extreme costs developers have because of that. they don't want dlc which is a way to get the enormous costs back, they don't want drm, they don't want higher game prices. gamers are against everything which could help developers but they still ask for "more power" all the time and already laugh about the possible graphics of xbox one. 

indie games are successful, but how many of them? don't you think for every successful story there are minimum the same amount of people who tried but failed with it? it's not as if we get 5000 indie games and all make a profit. you just don't hear about the indie developers which failed because they are all only a few guys big and nobody will talk about them. many guys just make an indie game in their freetime. if it's a success it's great and if not then, well, they still have another job... people who work for bigger developers or publishers don't have that. if they aren't successful they lose their jobs. but it's not easy to be successful with those costs you have nowadays. 

 

Agreed 





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Darc Requiem on 09 June 2013
20happyballs said:
oldschoolfool said:
crissindahouse said:
Carl2291 said:
Maybe if videogame developers didnt think they were working on the next big fucking Hollywood blockbuster, they wouldnt need mediocre games with small fanbases to sell 10 Million units.

The best way to increase profit, would be to actually start making videogames that people want to buy. Gaining consumer trust would be a start.

Stop cloning Call of Duty. Stop putting out unconvincing videogames. Stop developing games for 4-5 Years at a time. Stop putting out overpriced, shitty DLC. Stop putting DLC on the fucking disc. Stop advertising your product as something that it quite clearly isnt. Make a compelling product.

These companies need to stop blaming the consumer and look closer to home for the problems.

There is a reason why the Indie scene is doing so well right now. Its because they release new, good videogames, that dont cost a lot to make... And are worth the price you actually pay. Its controlled development and the likes of EA and Square Enix could learn a thing or two.

maybe consumers should stop asking for always better graphics then? people even complain already that xbox one is too weak and some even say that about ps4. but the same people don't want to pay for those extreme costs developers have because of that. they don't want dlc which is a way to get the enormous costs back, they don't want drm, they don't want higher game prices. gamers are against everything which could help developers but they still ask for "more power" all the time and already laugh about the possible graphics of xbox one. 

indie games are successful, but how many of them? don't you think for every successful story there are minimum the same amount of people who tried but failed with it? it's not as if we get 5000 indie games and all make a profit. you just don't hear about the indie developers which failed because they are all only a few guys big and nobody will talk about them. many guys just make an indie game in their freetime. if it's a success it's great and if not then, well, they still have another job... people who work for bigger developers or publishers don't have that. if they aren't successful they lose their jobs. but it's not easy to be successful with those costs you have nowadays. 

 

Agreed 


That's only a small segment of "hardcore" gamers. That are always looking for higher fidelity graphics. It's not a good argument because the same can be said for developers. You have the Cryteks, Square Enix, and Epic games of the world pushing for more advanced tech as well. Not only that, console manufacturers push for better tech. If they've faltered during the current generation, their next platform is a way for them reset battle. It's gives them an easier path to gaining the number one position in the market.



richardhutnik on 09 June 2013
the2real4mafol said:

dane007 said:
Secondly gaming is not meant  for everyon. if you can't afford it then its unfortunate (GET OUT, who are you to tell people what to do?!?). i mean people who belong to very low to low socioeconomic category should focus more on how to support themselves and or family instead of gaming. if you are in the middle and can't afford all of it,, then how is it a big loss? if you can't afford it straight away wait til it gets cheap. you don't have to buy it straight away right? -(Didn't you just call these people cheapskates? Ain't you contradictory?!) 

 

Well why should the gaming industry be yet another thing that poorer people are priced out of? There is no need for a game to cost over $5 million to make. You don't here such problems on mobile games or handheld games do you? Not only are they cheaper to buy but they are so much cheaper to make too. In fact, i remember hearing that Nintendo DS games could sell only 250,000 units and make a profit. Also, why is it the gamers fault? They don't set the price, that's up to a retailer. Also, don't you think we already support good developers? They would of gone bankrupt otherwise. While, games like uncharted and halo are so well recieved because of their gameplay and they only happen to have top of the range graphics. If they weren't supported they would of not got sequels. Also, graphics are clearly not everything, i mean why would Minecraft or Call of Duty be so popular, the graphics are not worth talking about in either game. Also, learn how to spell.     

The longing to be taken seriously, to be seen as culturally critical and artistic as film, and the desire to create blockbusters and win all, results in videogames getting as expensive as they are to make.  You also need to keep your teams of hundreds going.  And the fight for consumer dollars means that more mojney is spent.



oniyide on 09 June 2013
Slimebeast said:
oniyide said:
Slimebeast said:
RolStoppable said:
Slimebeast said:
I agree with the OP 100%. The used games market must be crushed so that developers get more revenue and better budgets to create even better games for us all.

Not sure if serious.

Normally this would have to be a joke, but you are known to have some strange views. The most obvious one being that you abandoned the Xbox brand years ago, but are still rooting for Microsoft.

I am serious.

I don't like to have consumers rights removed per se, but I don't want gamers to put their money into the pockets of Gamestop and not supporting the developers.

And in general the industry is not in a huge need of revenue, no. The big publishers are totally rotten and money-hungry and most AAA games piss me off, but that doesn't change that a lot of mid-market games, good ones, don't get sequels because they weren't profitable.

I hate Microsoft and all their practices, I despise them and their attitude. But you know, it's still this thing with many Sony fans and their confidence and cockyness, many of them licking up everything Sony and never being able to criticize anything by Sony - and not the least all these fans being in such a huge majority - that makes me want MS and the Xbone to kinda shut them up.

YOu had it then you lost it, but more on that later. YOu like mid market games?? good, but i would bet that these policies will hurt them the most. Let me paint a picture. YOu are a regular joe who just buys COD Madden or any big AAA game cause of hype and you simply not knowing any better, now these not AAA games dont get anywhere near the hype or exposure, now which of these games benefit. If there is no used market, then people will wait for prices to go down, and which game you think they are more willing to pick up first and at full price, not the freaking mid market game. Hell no, they'll go with the AAA cause thats what they know and what all the cool guys will be playing, if anything you'll see lesser mid market games and either more AAA or smaller indie games.

As for Sony, they havent said anything close to what MS is talking about, and how they gonna shut them up? More restrictions, wont that be great!

There would be those kind of people, but I think there are even more people who buy a $60 mid-market single-player game and then dump it to Gamestop within a couple of weeks, flooding the second hand market with cheap copies, which will hurt further sales of new copies.

Meanwhile the type of games that aren't dumped as easily into Gamestop are the huge blockbluster AAA games with emphasis on multiplayer and longevity like COD, Battlefield and FIFA. The casuals and semi-core people will want to hold on to their copy of COD and FIFA because all their friends are playing that game online.

Again you kind of lost me. THere would NOT be that much people shelling out 60 bucks for a mid market SP game and dump it onto GS, because quite frankly their arent that much people buying those games period. COD sells big initially and continues to do so. If you dont believe me, look at these mid market games and how they sell in the first few weeks, they dont do anywhere NEAR the numbers of AAA games. So again you are blaming the used market off of nothing. Fact is there are very few people willing to spend 60 bucks on those games in the first place, they would spent their dough on a sure thing. 

What might happen is they either, have to sell the game cheaper, or simply not make the game at all.



papamudd on 10 June 2013

Honestly I think game sharing and used games help to a certain extent on sales. Say on the x1 if I can buy 1 copy and give it to 1 other friend so we can play together, and then 8 other people can get it from me 2 as long as the play times for that game are diversified you could potentially cut the sales on x1 COD game by say %50 easily. Meaning people that were going to buy it go it for free thanks to family cloud share. Now this could also potentially mean that these people would be more willing to take a risk on other new titles, and thereby helping out the sales of other games.

Its not used games hurting overall game sales its monster franchises that take up the majority of sales for any given year. I believe this is driven by blind consumerism, and causes people who are on a limited budget (MAJORITY OF GAMERS) to only buy that one big game, or choose a lot more carefully. I truly think that if those profits were diversified we could get some more stability in the gaming market. However, MS and ACTI won't really let that happen as they have the most AD campaign moneys and will spend most of it to push these bigger games.



Talal said:
I will permaban myself if the game releases in 2014.

in reference to KH3 release date

the2real4mafol on 10 June 2013
richardhutnik said:
the2real4mafol said:

dane007 said:
Secondly gaming is not meant  for everyon. if you can't afford it then its unfortunate (GET OUT, who are you to tell people what to do?!?). i mean people who belong to very low to low socioeconomic category should focus more on how to support themselves and or family instead of gaming. if you are in the middle and can't afford all of it,, then how is it a big loss? if you can't afford it straight away wait til it gets cheap. you don't have to buy it straight away right? -(Didn't you just call these people cheapskates? Ain't you contradictory?!) 

 

Well why should the gaming industry be yet another thing that poorer people are priced out of? There is no need for a game to cost over $5 million to make. You don't here such problems on mobile games or handheld games do you? Not only are they cheaper to buy but they are so much cheaper to make too. In fact, i remember hearing that Nintendo DS games could sell only 250,000 units and make a profit. Also, why is it the gamers fault? They don't set the price, that's up to a retailer. Also, don't you think we already support good developers? They would of gone bankrupt otherwise. While, games like uncharted and halo are so well recieved because of their gameplay and they only happen to have top of the range graphics. If they weren't supported they would of not got sequels. Also, graphics are clearly not everything, i mean why would Minecraft or Call of Duty be so popular, the graphics are not worth talking about in either game. Also, learn how to spell.     

The longing to be taken seriously, to be seen as culturally critical and artistic as film, and the desire to create blockbusters and win all, results in videogames getting as expensive as they are to make.  You also need to keep your teams of hundreds going.  And the fight for consumer dollars means that more mojney is spent.

But gaming will be taken seriously in it's own time, it don't need the big budgets and set pieces of films to do that. You can throw money at something, but it don't always make it good. I want good innovative games, not crappy AAA games. I guess that's the real problem here, it's not second hand gaming or the amount of people who game. We just expect too much from developers, bigger and better constantly but maybe we hit a point where we can't get more out of whats available to a developer just yet, as it cost too much money to do bigger and better



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