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Forums - Sports Discussion - Mourinho's Failure

DieAppleDie on 20 May 2013
kopstudent89 said:
He's always went to a club with a huge budget, and to fail like this at Madrid is bad. Not a bad manager, but at the same time he did manage to turn the players and fans against him when he didn't need to,


problem is he did that like....on purpose, which is kinda shocking...why would anybody piss off his own people (and everybodyelse) on purpose? he thinks he can get more performance out of enragement?

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dobby985 on 20 May 2013
Goatseye said:
dobby985 said:
Goatseye said:
dobby985 said:
Goatseye said:
Player1x3 said:
Lafiel said:
getting 2nd in the best football league, 2nd in the cup and making it to the semi-finals in the most competitive football competition is "disastrous" ?

no, these expectations are disastrous


Best football league is an English Premier League. Most certainly not spanish league 

EPL is exciting but not the best.

English teams when they play on European tournaments they struggle. Rare exceptions were mid 2000's.

Their tatics are suicidal against latin and german teams. I hate the way they defend but that's what makes EPL so exciting because the defense is almost forgotten.

When Mourinho went over there you guys didn't like his style. But he dominated the league with his defensive tatics.

Benfica balled Chelsea like no one in England has done yet this season. If Chelsea had played Porto they would've been humiliated. 


Nobody in England really cares about the Europa League. I forgot the final was even on TV.

it's better to focus on finishing higher in the league. Whereas Portugese teams seem obsessed with that competition.

It's a competition that a lot of good teams measure their power on. Because English teams cannot compete, now you diminish the importance of the tournament. England is all about Man U and Liverpool in exceptional form to win anything outside the kick and rush championship. Besides them there is an English desert in European panorama.


The Europa league IS irrelevant. It's a tournament for clubs from smaller countries.

Focussing on a higher league position will earn you a lot more prize money than winning the Europa League. It's all about TV money.

But if you want to call the Europa League a big achievement then go ahead.

Smaller clubs need exposition and they work hard to value the roster they have for a big transfer.

From 3 place in EPL down are all EL caliber anyway.

Europa League is a good alternative to CL and offers a lot of extraordinaire matches.

The prize money for the EL is so small compared to EPL TV money that it's better for teams to focus their resources on a higher league position.

Sure Porto can win their uncompetitive league every year and focus on the EL. But it's beneath most English teams.



dobby985 on 20 May 2013
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:

Tottenham came 4th last year. This is Bale's best season, that's it.

Also, AvB's style of defending is fundamentally flawed. He is too stubborn to choose a system that fits the players, last year his need to play a high line really cost Chelsea

He needs to get defenders at Porto. Most defenders in EPL suck like a black hole. There's bunch of exceptions but the teams defend poorly for my taste.

Chelsea was just a lit up cocktail Molotov. Players got rid of him. He proved at Porto that he is very good.

Up until AvB came there, Chelsea still had Mourinho's defensive structure and had been defensively sound. He did well at Porto, wow, how tough

What did Chelsea win since Mourinho left until AVB got there? 1 championship after investing 100 million pounds. They had the most boring soccer style ever. Italian defensive attitude with English vertical offensive approach, with no result. 

To win at FC Porto is more stressful than at a club with no winning culture like Chelsea. 2 Champions League, 2 Europe Super Cup, 2 Europa League, 2 World Club Champion, tey have the most CL appearence together with Man U. Chelsea is a oil funded burgoisie with no sporting spirit, a kid.

These competitions have about as much credibility as the invitational pre-season tournaments that are playing in America or the Community Shield.

Andre Villas Boas left Porto for Chelsea because it's a bigger club and he couldnt say no. No amount of bragging about your so-called achievements will change that.



kopstudent89 on 20 May 2013
DieAppleDie said:
kopstudent89 said:
He's always went to a club with a huge budget, and to fail like this at Madrid is bad. Not a bad manager, but at the same time he did manage to turn the players and fans against him when he didn't need to,


problem is he did that like....on purpose, which is kinda shocking...why would anybody piss off his own people (and everybodyelse) on purpose? he thinks he can get more performance out of enragement?


He's always had this "Us against the World" mentality. Obviously Ramos and Casillas didn't feel that way about their Spanish compatriots in Barca and thus began the feud. However, he took it 10 steps too far by benching Casillas and constantly defending his decision and attacking him. He underestimated the impact of his decision that's for sure!



SxyxS on 20 May 2013
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:

I disagree with your reasoning. All because Pellegrino never had the support that Mourinho has been getting for the last 3 years. Pellegrino's Madrid never had € 300 millions to spend on players that he barely uses. But still his team used to play "a la Madrid" style, offensive,attractive and effective. And Pellegrini lost the championship  to Barca not by much unlike Mourinho. And Barca at the time were well rounded team with no deficiencies like the past 2 seasons.

Mourinho is a type of mercenary to get the job done. Don't ask him to play an attractive soccer or develop young talents. It's been like that since his Benfica days.

He is a good psychologist but not a player developer.

Do you know if Mourinho is in charge of transfers? I would suggest he isn't as that is becoming less and less common these days, but he still made a huge amount of progress

He very definitely does develop players, there is a reason that so many players are so loyal to him, he just makes them into better players, see Frank Lampard. 

Frank was already an established player when Mourinho got there. He makes them better with his tatics but not technically. They love him because he his loyal to them but there were also cases where they said bad things about him. Like Makelele for example.

Edit: He is in charge of transfers, no players are bought wihtout his consent.

He was a decent player, but not a world beater, Jose told him he was the best midfielder in the world and he responded. There is no doubt that without Jose Lampard would not still be going with Chelsea and would not have got 203 goals. 

Says who? He will get a say, but I doubt it will be the final say

As a Chelsea fan you should know that Mourinho doesn't take kindly presidents and owners interfering with his teams. Look at Shevchenko case. Got a favor from Abramovich and Mourinho was not happy for the remainder of time in Chelsea and this was one of the reason he probably left/got fired.

DieAppleDie:

Mourinho is overrated
Hes just an ok trainer and hes all talk, there lies his strength.
Sure i only say that cause im a Barsa supporter. XD

 

Well he is better than Guardiola and Tito defensively. Tactically I don't think anybody can match him.

He reads the matches like no one else. I hope AVB gets to his level just to shut him up because AVB is all about the beauty of the game and he is about winning.

tactically klopp matched him 4 times with dortmund.

having a cheap team and destroying barcas defense,being better in the offense can't be done only by coincidence or passion-this is a matter of tactics.



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Goatseye on 20 May 2013
dobby985 said:
Goatseye said:
dobby985 said:
Goatseye said:
dobby985 said:
Goatseye said:
Player1x3 said:
Lafiel said:
getting 2nd in the best football league, 2nd in the cup and making it to the semi-finals in the most competitive football competition is "disastrous" ?

no, these expectations are disastrous


Best football league is an English Premier League. Most certainly not spanish league 

EPL is exciting but not the best.

English teams when they play on European tournaments they struggle. Rare exceptions were mid 2000's.

Their tatics are suicidal against latin and german teams. I hate the way they defend but that's what makes EPL so exciting because the defense is almost forgotten.

When Mourinho went over there you guys didn't like his style. But he dominated the league with his defensive tatics.

Benfica balled Chelsea like no one in England has done yet this season. If Chelsea had played Porto they would've been humiliated. 


Nobody in England really cares about the Europa League. I forgot the final was even on TV.

it's better to focus on finishing higher in the league. Whereas Portugese teams seem obsessed with that competition.

It's a competition that a lot of good teams measure their power on. Because English teams cannot compete, now you diminish the importance of the tournament. England is all about Man U and Liverpool in exceptional form to win anything outside the kick and rush championship. Besides them there is an English desert in European panorama.


The Europa league IS irrelevant. It's a tournament for clubs from smaller countries.

Focussing on a higher league position will earn you a lot more prize money than winning the Europa League. It's all about TV money.

But if you want to call the Europa League a big achievement then go ahead.

Smaller clubs need exposition and they work hard to value the roster they have for a big transfer.

From 3 place in EPL down are all EL caliber anyway.

Europa League is a good alternative to CL and offers a lot of extraordinaire matches.

The prize money for the EL is so small compared to EPL TV money that it's better for teams to focus their resources on a higher league position.

Sure Porto can win their uncompetitive league every year and focus on the EL. But it's beneath most English teams.

Porto at 100% is a force to be reckoned.

EPL are hyped as much as the English team and they always die like storm when it hits the land.

Porto in the last 10 years have won 1 CL, 1 Uefa Cup, 1 EL, 1 Europe Supercup, 1 World Champ.

The only team that could beat Porto in EPL is MU. The rest are just bunch of useless  sunday afternoon cross country racers.

M. City was so lucky last year.



Goatseye on 20 May 2013
SxyxS said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:

I disagree with your reasoning. All because Pellegrino never had the support that Mourinho has been getting for the last 3 years. Pellegrino's Madrid never had € 300 millions to spend on players that he barely uses. But still his team used to play "a la Madrid" style, offensive,attractive and effective. And Pellegrini lost the championship  to Barca not by much unlike Mourinho. And Barca at the time were well rounded team with no deficiencies like the past 2 seasons.

Mourinho is a type of mercenary to get the job done. Don't ask him to play an attractive soccer or develop young talents. It's been like that since his Benfica days.

He is a good psychologist but not a player developer.

Do you know if Mourinho is in charge of transfers? I would suggest he isn't as that is becoming less and less common these days, but he still made a huge amount of progress

He very definitely does develop players, there is a reason that so many players are so loyal to him, he just makes them into better players, see Frank Lampard. 

Frank was already an established player when Mourinho got there. He makes them better with his tatics but not technically. They love him because he his loyal to them but there were also cases where they said bad things about him. Like Makelele for example.

Edit: He is in charge of transfers, no players are bought wihtout his consent.

He was a decent player, but not a world beater, Jose told him he was the best midfielder in the world and he responded. There is no doubt that without Jose Lampard would not still be going with Chelsea and would not have got 203 goals. 

Says who? He will get a say, but I doubt it will be the final say

As a Chelsea fan you should know that Mourinho doesn't take kindly presidents and owners interfering with his teams. Look at Shevchenko case. Got a favor from Abramovich and Mourinho was not happy for the remainder of time in Chelsea and this was one of the reason he probably left/got fired.

DieAppleDie:

Mourinho is overrated
Hes just an ok trainer and hes all talk, there lies his strength.
Sure i only say that cause im a Barsa supporter. XD

 

Well he is better than Guardiola and Tito defensively. Tactically I don't think anybody can match him.

He reads the matches like no one else. I hope AVB gets to his level just to shut him up because AVB is all about the beauty of the game and he is about winning.

tactically klopp matched him 4 times with dortmund.

having a cheap team and destroying barcas defense,being better in the offense can't be done only by coincidence or passion-this is a matter of tactics.

Beating Barca's defense is not as hard as you may think. Barca's defense is horrible for a top team. German teams are all about balance and tacticall discipline.



Munkeh111 on 20 May 2013
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:

He needs to get defenders at Porto. Most defenders in EPL suck like a black hole. There's bunch of exceptions but the teams defend poorly for my taste.

Chelsea was just a lit up cocktail Molotov. Players got rid of him. He proved at Porto that he is very good.

Up until AvB came there, Chelsea still had Mourinho's defensive structure and had been defensively sound. He did well at Porto, wow, how tough

What did Chelsea win since Mourinho left until AVB got there? 1 championship after investing 100 million pounds. They had the most boring soccer style ever. Italian defensive attitude with English vertical offensive approach, with no result. 

To win at FC Porto is more stressful than at a club with no winning culture like Chelsea. 2 Champions League, 2 Europe Super Cup, 2 Europa League, 2 World Club Champion, tey have the most CL appearence together with Man U. Chelsea is a oil funded burgoisie with no sporting spirit, a kid.

Premier League and FA Cup (or maybe 2)

What did they win with AvB? He got fired with as 3-1 down against Porto

Also, let's not forget than under Ancelloti, they scored the record number of goals in a season (and got the best goal difference). Let's also not forget that Jose won the Champions League with Porto

You are genuinely crazy if you think AvB is a better manager than Mourinho.

When did I say anything that hinted that?


The last paragraph and the first paragraph...



Goatseye on 20 May 2013
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:

He needs to get defenders at Porto. Most defenders in EPL suck like a black hole. There's bunch of exceptions but the teams defend poorly for my taste.

Chelsea was just a lit up cocktail Molotov. Players got rid of him. He proved at Porto that he is very good.

Up until AvB came there, Chelsea still had Mourinho's defensive structure and had been defensively sound. He did well at Porto, wow, how tough

What did Chelsea win since Mourinho left until AVB got there? 1 championship after investing 100 million pounds. They had the most boring soccer style ever. Italian defensive attitude with English vertical offensive approach, with no result. 

To win at FC Porto is more stressful than at a club with no winning culture like Chelsea. 2 Champions League, 2 Europe Super Cup, 2 Europa League, 2 World Club Champion, tey have the most CL appearence together with Man U. Chelsea is a oil funded burgoisie with no sporting spirit, a kid.

Premier League and FA Cup (or maybe 2)

What did they win with AvB? He got fired with as 3-1 down against Porto

Also, let's not forget than under Ancelloti, they scored the record number of goals in a season (and got the best goal difference). Let's also not forget that Jose won the Champions League with Porto

You are genuinely crazy if you think AvB is a better manager than Mourinho.

When did I say anything that hinted that?


The last paragraph and the first paragraph...

???



Goatseye on 20 May 2013
dobby985 said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:

Tottenham came 4th last year. This is Bale's best season, that's it.

Also, AvB's style of defending is fundamentally flawed. He is too stubborn to choose a system that fits the players, last year his need to play a high line really cost Chelsea

He needs to get defenders at Porto. Most defenders in EPL suck like a black hole. There's bunch of exceptions but the teams defend poorly for my taste.

Chelsea was just a lit up cocktail Molotov. Players got rid of him. He proved at Porto that he is very good.

Up until AvB came there, Chelsea still had Mourinho's defensive structure and had been defensively sound. He did well at Porto, wow, how tough

What did Chelsea win since Mourinho left until AVB got there? 1 championship after investing 100 million pounds. They had the most boring soccer style ever. Italian defensive attitude with English vertical offensive approach, with no result. 

To win at FC Porto is more stressful than at a club with no winning culture like Chelsea. 2 Champions League, 2 Europe Super Cup, 2 Europa League, 2 World Club Champion, tey have the most CL appearence together with Man U. Chelsea is a oil funded burgoisie with no sporting spirit, a kid.

These competitions have about as much credibility as the invitational pre-season tournaments that are playing in America or the Community Shield.

Andre Villas Boas left Porto for Chelsea because it's a bigger club and he couldnt say no. No amount of bragging about your so-called achievements will change that.

Andre couldn't say no to petrodollars not because Chelsea has a wining culture. Chelsea has not even a 1/5th of the trophies won by FCP.

Chelsea is a team that if left by Abramovich will return to its modest obscurity like it was before got injected with Russians money.