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Forums - Sports Discussion - Mourinho's Failure

Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:

When did I say anything that hinted that?


The last paragraph and the first paragraph...

???

Basically, looking through what you said, you haven't really made any point. I suppose I guessed what you were trying to say was that AvB was better than Jose, because I can't think what else you are trying to say

That his teams play better looking soccer than Mourinho's maybe?

That's got nothing to do with quality of manager. Have you ever watched Arsenal play? They weave all their lovely patterns, but normally lack an end product. Same with Barcelona, they just pass from side to side and side to side until Messi shows up to make some magic. That is not managerial greatness. Let's look at AvB's Chelsea. They had some flair sure, but it's not fun watching a team when you know there is every chance that they could just fall apart at any time.

Compared to last year, Tottenham gone backwards. The only thing that has improved is Bale. Everyone always talks about how van Persie has had the largest impact in terms of winning Man U games, but he just scores goals by being in the right place at the right time. Bale has scored so so so many last minute goals to win games, not just from being in the right place and the chance being created due to a build up of pressure, but pieces of individual brilliance (like the last match) that have nothing to do with the manager

AVB's Porto was a wonder to see. Hulk, Falcao, Varela. If you think teams playing nice doesn't reflect the managerial qualities you should check your knowledge on soccer.

Barcelona team lacks a robust defensive line that in the firs 3 seasons help them dominate every team they played in Europe. If all you see in Barcelona game is just boring passes until Messi shows up you're one of the folks that rather watch highlights of a game than the whole thing.

Arsenal always had that English back end, phisically though but the qualities didn't match the front end. Tottenham has a horrible defense my god they can't hold an advantage for the sake of their lives.

Playing beautiful is a Philosophy and an ideal. Mourinho's ideal is to win. Everybody wants to win, but I will never pay a ticket to watch Mourinho's team score a goal and park the bus in front of the goal for the remainder of the match. On the other hand AVB's team resemble Mourinho's style but he couples them with some flair, which Mourinho doesn't like.



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wfz said:

I don't watch football, soccer, or any team sports. Why are the managers at fault for poor player performance? Ex: "He had a $400 million dollar team and he lost to a $30 million dollar team." Aren't the players the ones that practice and play? What does the manager do that has such a drastic affect on player performance?


1) it depends on what you mean with manager.

in england manager is= coach and manager.in germany(and most other footballsoccer countries)

the manager is the one who is responsible for buying players and giving them contracts but has nothing to do with coaching.

2)there is a reason why less than 10coaches earn astronomic summs of money.Because they are really really good.You can't just buy expensive/good players and expect to win.Superior individuals means nothing as long as they don't work together as team.A great manager you have to be a great coach,great analyst and great psychologist as it is very hard to keep up harmony and motivation in a team of millionaires.Only few have all three talents.

 

A great example how important a great manager is is dortmund.5 years ago they were nothing,in debt,no success,close to bancruptcy.than came klopp,bought some players for little money and turned the within 3 years into a national champion and within 5 years into a world class team-without spending hundreds of millions or having a guy like messi. 

 

of course players are also responsible -but not as much as the coach-and:you can fire a coach,but you cannot fire a team.



SxyxS said:
Augen said:
So, Ancelotti to replace him? When Madrid fail to win La Primera Liga or Champions League next year I guess they can just fire another manager. Meanwhile Jose can go back to Chelsea until Roman fires him again. Some of these big clubs behave in such short sighted manners.


no-Ancelotti has to say in Paris.He has another year contract and his sheikh boss said he has to stay there.


Not sure about that
Ancelotti has a buy out thing in his contract and no one can do something about that...Its about the money at the end.

Good that Mourinho is gone
Probably the best birthday present for San Iker Casillas in his whole life.
Mourinho was the worst thing that ever happened to Real Madrid - The reputation is at the lowest point ever.Even the own fans are disgusted.
And Mourinho never brought the change he promised...Uuuuh Semi Finals and a League Title against a weak Barcelona...uuuuh
Mourinho needs soldiers and not a football familiy with players that have fun at their job.Back to Chelsea or an other Oil Club where Money is everything.



Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:

When did I say anything that hinted that?


The last paragraph and the first paragraph...

???

Basically, looking through what you said, you haven't really made any point. I suppose I guessed what you were trying to say was that AvB was better than Jose, because I can't think what else you are trying to say

That his teams play better looking soccer than Mourinho's maybe?

That's got nothing to do with quality of manager. Have you ever watched Arsenal play? They weave all their lovely patterns, but normally lack an end product. Same with Barcelona, they just pass from side to side and side to side until Messi shows up to make some magic. That is not managerial greatness. Let's look at AvB's Chelsea. They had some flair sure, but it's not fun watching a team when you know there is every chance that they could just fall apart at any time.

Compared to last year, Tottenham gone backwards. The only thing that has improved is Bale. Everyone always talks about how van Persie has had the largest impact in terms of winning Man U games, but he just scores goals by being in the right place at the right time. Bale has scored so so so many last minute goals to win games, not just from being in the right place and the chance being created due to a build up of pressure, but pieces of individual brilliance (like the last match) that have nothing to do with the manager

AVB's Porto was a wonder to see. Hulk, Falcao, Varela. If you think teams playing nice doesn't reflect the managerial qualities you should check your knowledge on soccer.

Barcelona team lacks a robust defensive line that in the firs 3 seasons help them dominate every team they played in Europe. If all you see in Barcelona game is just boring passes until Messi shows up you're one of the folks that rather watch highlights of a game than the whole thing.

Arsenal always had that English back end, phisically though but the qualities didn't match the front end. Tottenham has a horrible defense my god they can't hold an advantage for the sake of their lives.

Playing beautiful is a Philosophy and an ideal. Mourinho's ideal is to win. Everybody wants to win, but I will never pay a ticket to watch Mourinho's team score a goal and park the bus in front of the goal for the remainder of the match. On the other hand AVB's team resemble Mourinho's style but he couples them with some flair, which Mourinho doesn't like.

Some managers make attractive teams, doesn't make them a good manager. A good manager wins trophies and gets the best out of his players, Jose suceeds on both fronts, AvB not so much.

I have watched Barcelona plenty of times and have rarely been entertained. Having said that, I can't watch any games with Spanish teams as half the players seem to be on the floor at any given time.

Sorry what are you saying about Arsenal? The problem with watching them has nothing to do with their defence, it has everything to do with a lack of killer instinct. Their play in the final third is normally too slow allowing the opposition to get back and get organised. That is why they are frustrating to watch, nothing happens, it just goes from side to side.

Mourinho has no problem with flair, his Real side has had plenty of that, but he is always sure to unlerline it with steel. AvB does not seem to grasp this concept and is too keen to play "Barcelona style" football without the players to suit the system



Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:

When did I say anything that hinted that?


The last paragraph and the first paragraph...

???

Basically, looking through what you said, you haven't really made any point. I suppose I guessed what you were trying to say was that AvB was better than Jose, because I can't think what else you are trying to say

That his teams play better looking soccer than Mourinho's maybe?

That's got nothing to do with quality of manager. Have you ever watched Arsenal play? They weave all their lovely patterns, but normally lack an end product. Same with Barcelona, they just pass from side to side and side to side until Messi shows up to make some magic. That is not managerial greatness. Let's look at AvB's Chelsea. They had some flair sure, but it's not fun watching a team when you know there is every chance that they could just fall apart at any time.

Compared to last year, Tottenham gone backwards. The only thing that has improved is Bale. Everyone always talks about how van Persie has had the largest impact in terms of winning Man U games, but he just scores goals by being in the right place at the right time. Bale has scored so so so many last minute goals to win games, not just from being in the right place and the chance being created due to a build up of pressure, but pieces of individual brilliance (like the last match) that have nothing to do with the manager

AVB's Porto was a wonder to see. Hulk, Falcao, Varela. If you think teams playing nice doesn't reflect the managerial qualities you should check your knowledge on soccer.

Barcelona team lacks a robust defensive line that in the firs 3 seasons help them dominate every team they played in Europe. If all you see in Barcelona game is just boring passes until Messi shows up you're one of the folks that rather watch highlights of a game than the whole thing.

Arsenal always had that English back end, phisically though but the qualities didn't match the front end. Tottenham has a horrible defense my god they can't hold an advantage for the sake of their lives.

Playing beautiful is a Philosophy and an ideal. Mourinho's ideal is to win. Everybody wants to win, but I will never pay a ticket to watch Mourinho's team score a goal and park the bus in front of the goal for the remainder of the match. On the other hand AVB's team resemble Mourinho's style but he couples them with some flair, which Mourinho doesn't like.

Some managers make attractive teams, doesn't make them a good manager. A good manager wins trophies and gets the best out of his players, Jose suceeds on both fronts, AvB not so much.

I have watched Barcelona plenty of times and have rarely been entertained. Having said that, I can't watch any games with Spanish teams as half the players seem to be on the floor at any given time.

Sorry what are you saying about Arsenal? The problem with watching them has nothing to do with their defence, it has everything to do with a lack of killer instinct. Their play in the final third is normally too slow allowing the opposition to get back and get organised. That is why they are frustrating to watch, nothing happens, it just goes from side to side.

Mourinho has no problem with flair, his Real side has had plenty of that, but he is always sure to unlerline it with steel. AvB does not seem to grasp this concept and is too keen to play "Barcelona style" football without the players to suit the system


That's where I see you don't know AVB that well. Look up FC Porto 2010 and see highlights of the plays and how the team behaved according to his style of play. AVB is adored in Porto because his style of play is about high defense line, a high rotation midfielder where all three players (4-3-3) can operate in any part of the field with the same efficiency and the forwards are the first defenders. A very cohesive team, that pressures opponent when they play out of defense and very lethal with well measured passes without giving the opponents chance to counter.

It's a marvel to see my team playing today, we kept his philosophy. He wants to get Joao Moutinho for Tottenham to put order in that junk.

And about Arsenal, they don't know to defend bro. I saw their game against Braga 2 years ago and they were disastrous as always in Europe.



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Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:

AVB's Porto was a wonder to see. Hulk, Falcao, Varela. If you think teams playing nice doesn't reflect the managerial qualities you should check your knowledge on soccer.

Barcelona team lacks a robust defensive line that in the firs 3 seasons help them dominate every team they played in Europe. If all you see in Barcelona game is just boring passes until Messi shows up you're one of the folks that rather watch highlights of a game than the whole thing.

Arsenal always had that English back end, phisically though but the qualities didn't match the front end. Tottenham has a horrible defense my god they can't hold an advantage for the sake of their lives.

Playing beautiful is a Philosophy and an ideal. Mourinho's ideal is to win. Everybody wants to win, but I will never pay a ticket to watch Mourinho's team score a goal and park the bus in front of the goal for the remainder of the match. On the other hand AVB's team resemble Mourinho's style but he couples them with some flair, which Mourinho doesn't like.

Some managers make attractive teams, doesn't make them a good manager. A good manager wins trophies and gets the best out of his players, Jose suceeds on both fronts, AvB not so much.

I have watched Barcelona plenty of times and have rarely been entertained. Having said that, I can't watch any games with Spanish teams as half the players seem to be on the floor at any given time.

Sorry what are you saying about Arsenal? The problem with watching them has nothing to do with their defence, it has everything to do with a lack of killer instinct. Their play in the final third is normally too slow allowing the opposition to get back and get organised. That is why they are frustrating to watch, nothing happens, it just goes from side to side.

Mourinho has no problem with flair, his Real side has had plenty of that, but he is always sure to unlerline it with steel. AvB does not seem to grasp this concept and is too keen to play "Barcelona style" football without the players to suit the system

That's where I see you don't know AVB that well. Look up FC Porto 2010 and see highlights of the plays and how the team behaved according to his style of play. AVB is adored in Porto because his style of play is about high defense line, a high rotation midfielder where all three players (4-3-3) can operate in any part of the field with the same efficiency and the forwards are the first defenders. A very cohesive team, that pressures opponent when they play out of defense and very lethal with well measured passes without giving the opponents chance to counter.

It's a marvel to see my team playing today, we kept his philosophy. He wants to get Joao Moutinho for Tottenham to put order in that junk.

And about Arsenal, they don't know to defend bro. I saw their game against Braga 2 years ago and they were disastrous as always in Europe.

He had a system that worked well in Porto with those players and it worked well against who precisely?

He tried to put that system in place at Chelsea and Tottenham where the players did not fit the system.

I never said anything about Arsenal's defending, it is fine since they have got Mertersacker playing properly. My complaint was about their lack of final product on the pitch, not just their inability to win trophies



Goatseye said:
dobby985 said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:
Goatseye said:
Munkeh111 said:

Tottenham came 4th last year. This is Bale's best season, that's it.

Also, AvB's style of defending is fundamentally flawed. He is too stubborn to choose a system that fits the players, last year his need to play a high line really cost Chelsea

He needs to get defenders at Porto. Most defenders in EPL suck like a black hole. There's bunch of exceptions but the teams defend poorly for my taste.

Chelsea was just a lit up cocktail Molotov. Players got rid of him. He proved at Porto that he is very good.

Up until AvB came there, Chelsea still had Mourinho's defensive structure and had been defensively sound. He did well at Porto, wow, how tough

What did Chelsea win since Mourinho left until AVB got there? 1 championship after investing 100 million pounds. They had the most boring soccer style ever. Italian defensive attitude with English vertical offensive approach, with no result. 

To win at FC Porto is more stressful than at a club with no winning culture like Chelsea. 2 Champions League, 2 Europe Super Cup, 2 Europa League, 2 World Club Champion, tey have the most CL appearence together with Man U. Chelsea is a oil funded burgoisie with no sporting spirit, a kid.

These competitions have about as much credibility as the invitational pre-season tournaments that are playing in America or the Community Shield.

Andre Villas Boas left Porto for Chelsea because it's a bigger club and he couldnt say no. No amount of bragging about your so-called achievements will change that.

Andre couldn't say no to petrodollars not because Chelsea has a wining culture. Chelsea has not even a 1/5th of the trophies won by FCP.

Chelsea is a team that if left by Abramovich will return to its modest obscurity like it was before got injected with Russians money.

It doesn't matter how many trophies you have won. You are still irellevant.

Abramovich wanted to buy into the Premier League. Everyone wants to buy into the Premier League. Just look at Sheikh Mansour.