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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - EA Sports Engineer: Wii U is crap, less powerful than 360. No money for 3rd parties.

se7en7thre3 on 21 May 2013
ninjablade said:

almost everbody on beyond3d and neogaf agrees the gpu is a 160 shader gpu, now even a ea engineer has come out and said its weaker then 360, i really dont think its weaker, i think it on par, it will run some games better and some games worst, now what else have i been wrong about wiiu bombing in sales or no third party support, if it was a 320 shader gpu, there is no way in hell he would say something like that and there is also  no way many ports would be inferior if it was a 320 shader gpu.

classic case of reading what you want to believe. 

but since you seem to be ridin gaf hard...

 

"Well Latte does have significantly more transistors than a HD4670. Even after you remove all the extra embedded memory its still around 100mm2 on a 40nm process which should be at least 600m transistors. That's another reason I find it very hard to believe that its a 8:8:160 GPU (HD4670 is 16:32:320 with 514m transistors).

Again there are plenty of theories on what custom hardware Nintendo may have put into the chip that could be using extra transistors. But they'd have to be pretty significant if we're talking about a chip that size using so few transistors for its texture units, rops and shaders units."
"When you take into account that Brazo is DX11 and SM5 while Latte's ALUs don't have the extra logic required for those things, it makes sense that Latte's ALUs would quite a bit smaller as well. You COULD fit 320ALUs in that block, or 256ALUs + extra logic for TEV. You also have to take into account that to scale, the 40nm process is likely more dense than Brazo, especially the advance one we think they used here. "
Looking at the Brazos/Latte comparison shots I still don't see how Latte could possibly only have 160 SPs. I mean I see where the point is coming from, but I just don't see how that could possibly be true. ~90% bigger, but the same amount of shader units? Sounds fishy to me.
There is also RV830 (Redwood, HD5xxx generation) which has a die size of 104mm² (that's probably roughly Latte size, considering the eDRAM) and 400 SPs.
I'm sure we've been over this, but nevertheless I just don't see why Nintendo would waste so much die space for a 160SPs GPU. It just doesn't make all that much sense imo.
but anyway...
With Sega & Nintendo's seemingly strong relationship, and the Madden NFL license set to expire after this yr, hopefully means the return of NFL 2K.  With 2 gamepad support in the future (private play calling), it will be a must have.  

 



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snowdog on 21 May 2013
Ji99saw said:
Since everyone is a tech. expert answer me this where do you work as a software engineer? Just for my own curiosity.



You don't need to be a software engineer to know that this guy is talking nonsense and that the Wii U is around 3-4 times more powerful than the 360:

1) 4 times more RAM with considerably less latency.

2) A GPU with a DX11-equivalent feature set as opposed to the DX9-equivalent feature set that Xenos has.

3) A GPU with 32MB of eDRAM and at least 1MB (could be as much as 4MB depending on density) of SRAM on die as opposed to 10MB of eDRAM on a daughter die for Xenos.

4) The communication between Expresso and Latte is a great deal quicker than the communication between Xenon and Xenos because both Expresso and Latte are on an MCM.

5) The Wii U has dedicated silicon to handle sound, IO and OS functions, Xenon has to deal with all this itself. Just having a DSP alone makes Expresso at least 16% more efficient - and with games with complex sound such as driving games you often have developers dedicating 2 entire threads to sound - that's a third of Xenon's processing power!

6) Expresso has a 4 stage pipeline, Xenon has (I'm going completely by memory now so I will stand to be corrected) an 8 stage pipeline, meaning that Expresso has less work to do to perform instructions.

7) Expresso is an Out-Of-Order execution CPU, Xenon is an In-Order execution CPU. Just as it sounds Xenon has to perform instructions in the order that it receives them. In layman's terms, if an instruction comes in and there isn't enough time to perform it then the CPU remains idle until it has enough time to process it, leaving other instructions waiting in a queue. With an Out-Of-Order execution CPU if there isn't enough time to process that instruction it looks at the executions in the queue to see if any of those can be processed in the time before the next cycle begins. It makes the Out-Of-Order CPU much more efficient because it has less time being idle.

8) Expresso has 3MB of cach, Xenon has 1MB of cache. Developers complaining about the CPU are probably just lazily porting code without optimisation, the Wii U has a completely different architecture compared to the PS3 and 360, the main difference is that floating point work on the previous gen machines is done by the CPU and the Wii U (along with the PS4 and One) is more suited to the GPU.

 

 

You don't have to be a software engineer to know that the guy is talking complete bollocks...although being a bit of a geek helps lol

Edit: Bloody phone, that should be easier to read lol



Jumpin on 21 May 2013

Hope they fire him.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

snowdog on 21 May 2013
Jumpin said:
Hope they fire him.



It's pretty much guaranteed mate. If EA are like most publishers there'll be a clause in his contract regarding comments in public forums and social networks. And you'll see him struggling to get a job with anyone else in the industry too after doing something so stupid. He's basically flushed his career down the loo.



Luck on 22 May 2013

Luck said:


Totally agree with you; what sane adult would play a game where there's no guns, blood, sex, swearing or a deep storyline. And more, playing a colorful cartoony game, lol, I would be ashamed of myself. Can't wait for the next Call of Duty! It's gonna be awesome bro!

/s?

Yeah, but shooters are ok.



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fedfed on 22 May 2013

I hope he gets fired...



Switch!!!

fedfed on 22 May 2013
reggin_bolas said:

What's the big deal? Nintendo is no friend to the adult gamer; Nintendo has always been loyal to children and families; this only really changed with the GameCube hence why it's the only Nintendo product I ever purchased when I grew up.

That's just the operative phrase here people; GROWING UP. If you're over 15 years old and you still play kiddie games like Mario you deserve to have your head checked. Trust me; I'm a trained psychologist with a Masters degree. I'll do it for free.

Again, Nintendo is no friend to gamers and is certainly no friend to the gaming industry. Be happy someone has the steel to finally say it.

~Mod Edit~

This post has been moderated.

-Smeags

I think people who plays war games day after day night after nights - or any realistic game were you going around and get satisfaction from killing people have more issues than myself playing mario. A trained psychlogist with a Master Degree that makes such comments is just starnge. Most of my friend are psychologist and psychoterapist and they will ahve something to say about your comment.

 

Or the simply fact that you have to underline your comment with a qualification is kind of strange if you ask me.



Switch!!!

Viper1 on 22 May 2013

"We are building titles for the Nintendo consoles, but not anywhere near as many as we are for PS or Xbox."
-EA.

So, back to business as usual.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Ji99saw on 22 May 2013
snowdog said:
Ji99saw said:
Since everyone is a tech. expert answer me this where do you work as a software engineer? Just for my own curiosity.



You don't need to be a software engineer to know that this guy is talking nonsense and that the Wii U is around 3-4 times more powerful than the 360:

1) 4 times more RAM with considerably less latency.

2) A GPU with a DX11-equivalent feature set as opposed to the DX9-equivalent feature set that Xenos has.

3) A GPU with 32MB of eDRAM and at least 1MB (could be as much as 4MB depending on density) of SRAM on die as opposed to 10MB of eDRAM on a daughter die for Xenos.

4) The communication between Expresso and Latte is a great deal quicker than the communication between Xenon and Xenos because both Expresso and Latte are on an MCM.

5) The Wii U has dedicated silicon to handle sound, IO and OS functions, Xenon has to deal with all this itself. Just having a DSP alone makes Expresso at least 16% more efficient - and with games with complex sound such as driving games you often have developers dedicating 2 entire threads to sound - that's a third of Xenon's processing power!

6) Expresso has a 4 stage pipeline, Xenon has (I'm going completely by memory now so I will stand to be corrected) an 8 stage pipeline, meaning that Expresso has less work to do to perform instructions.

7) Expresso is an Out-Of-Order execution CPU, Xenon is an In-Order execution CPU. Just as it sounds Xenon has to perform instructions in the order that it receives them. In layman's terms, if an instruction comes in and there isn't enough time to perform it then the CPU remains idle until it has enough time to process it, leaving other instructions waiting in a queue. With an Out-Of-Order execution CPU if there isn't enough time to process that instruction it looks at the executions in the queue to see if any of those can be processed in the time before the next cycle begins. It makes the Out-Of-Order CPU much more efficient because it has less time being idle.

8) Expresso has 3MB of cach, Xenon has 1MB of cache. Developers complaining about the CPU are probably just lazily porting code without optimisation, the Wii U has a completely different architecture compared to the PS3 and 360, the main difference is that floating point work on the previous gen machines is done by the CPU and the Wii U (along with the PS4 and One) is more suited to the GPU.

 

 

You don't have to be a software engineer to know that the guy is talking complete bollocks...although being a bit of a geek helps lol

Edit: Bloody phone, that should be easier to read lol

So in conclusion your not a software engineer and have far less credibility. I think I want the doctor who has actually performed surgeries and went to school for it other than the internet blogger who thinks he's smarter than everyone - Thank You



Without order nothing can exist - without chaos nothing can evolve.

"I don't debate, I just give you that work"- Ji99saw

Viper1 on 22 May 2013
Ji99saw said:
snowdog said:
Ji99saw said:
Since everyone is a tech. expert answer me this where do you work as a software engineer? Just for my own curiosity.



You don't need to be a software engineer to know that this guy is talking nonsense and that the Wii U is around 3-4 times more powerful than the 360:

1) 4 times more RAM with considerably less latency.

2) A GPU with a DX11-equivalent feature set as opposed to the DX9-equivalent feature set that Xenos has.

3) A GPU with 32MB of eDRAM and at least 1MB (could be as much as 4MB depending on density) of SRAM on die as opposed to 10MB of eDRAM on a daughter die for Xenos.

4) The communication between Expresso and Latte is a great deal quicker than the communication between Xenon and Xenos because both Expresso and Latte are on an MCM.

5) The Wii U has dedicated silicon to handle sound, IO and OS functions, Xenon has to deal with all this itself. Just having a DSP alone makes Expresso at least 16% more efficient - and with games with complex sound such as driving games you often have developers dedicating 2 entire threads to sound - that's a third of Xenon's processing power!

6) Expresso has a 4 stage pipeline, Xenon has (I'm going completely by memory now so I will stand to be corrected) an 8 stage pipeline, meaning that Expresso has less work to do to perform instructions.

7) Expresso is an Out-Of-Order execution CPU, Xenon is an In-Order execution CPU. Just as it sounds Xenon has to perform instructions in the order that it receives them. In layman's terms, if an instruction comes in and there isn't enough time to perform it then the CPU remains idle until it has enough time to process it, leaving other instructions waiting in a queue. With an Out-Of-Order execution CPU if there isn't enough time to process that instruction it looks at the executions in the queue to see if any of those can be processed in the time before the next cycle begins. It makes the Out-Of-Order CPU much more efficient because it has less time being idle.

8) Expresso has 3MB of cach, Xenon has 1MB of cache. Developers complaining about the CPU are probably just lazily porting code without optimisation, the Wii U has a completely different architecture compared to the PS3 and 360, the main difference is that floating point work on the previous gen machines is done by the CPU and the Wii U (along with the PS4 and One) is more suited to the GPU.

 

 

You don't have to be a software engineer to know that the guy is talking complete bollocks...although being a bit of a geek helps lol

Edit: Bloody phone, that should be easier to read lol

So in conclusion your not a software engineer and have far less credibility. I think I want the doctor who has actually performed surgeries and went to school for it other than the internet blogger who thinks he's smarter than everyone - Thank You

I have a technology background.  That EA engineer should be ashamed of himself for being wrong and an ass at the same time.



The rEVOLution is not being televised