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Forums - General - France legalizes gay marriage despite angry protests

 

Do you want gay marriage in your country?

Yes, It would just be fair 241 58.78%
 
No, get the gay out of my country 102 24.88%
 
meh, I don't really care 66 16.10%
 
Total:409
mai said:
The most interesting part of the story is not the legalization, but the fact they did it inspite of majority of French stance on the matter.

Actually the majority supports the law.



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Zkuq said:
mai said:
The most interesting part of the story is not the legalization, but the fact they did it inspite of majority of French stance on the matter.

Actually the majority supports the law.

http://www.liberation.fr/politiques/2013/04/04/mariage-homosexuel-les-francais-pour-mais-ils-rejettent-l-adoption_893559



jake_the_fake1 said:
KillerMan said:
jake_the_fake1 said:

I have no issue with gay marriage if it's done in civil courts and just recognized byt the state, but the state should not force institutes like churches to accept or wed them. Also gay people can stay away from adaption, poor children have suffered enough in their lives.

I say if gay people wanna have children let them procreate naturally like heterosexuals cuz I have no issues with this, the only people in my opinion who should be allowed to adopt are those that want to have to children, could of had children naturally but where struck down by infertility not of their choosing, these unfortunate people and only these type of people should be eligible to adopt.

Note: before some intellectually challenged person decides to call me a religious bigot, please understand that I do not believe in God, and his authority has no say in my opinion, my opinion is just that, my own.

So you would rather send a child to orphanage than to loving gay parents that would love him/her and give him/her a home?

No, I'd rather these poor unfortunate children have a loving adoptive family comprising of a man and a woman so that the child grows up not only in a loving environment, but also in a balanced home where the child benefits from both male and female attributes. As I've said before, these children have suffered enough.

Please keep in mind the childs welfare and mental state,  think of what happens in schools, kids are brutally honest, especially the younger ones, they will tease other children for absolutely anything but it's more hurtful when it's real such as children getting teased for being adopted, now imagine this child not only getting teased for being adopted but also for having gay parents, this child would be so mentally distraught that they could commit suicide or at least self harm. The thing is bullying/teasing at schools happen, I wish it didn't, but it does. All I am proposing is that we prevent this from happening as much as we can, by removing some of the elements, the child will be better off, again these poor children have suffered enough in their lives, no need to add more misery to their lives.

This is not about gay people, this is about the children, I hope even gay people can understand this point, anyone who doesn't understand , that it's about the child welfare and mental state are just self absorbed, self centered, greedy people who should not be allowed to adopt children, gay or straight.

Well I actually agree that preferable would be adoption by straight couple but as there are more childs in need of adoption than straight couples ready to adopt I see gay couples as a much better option than orphanage.



Cool. Good for France. I personally don't have an issue by legalising it here. Civil Partnerships are all intent and purposes according to the law the same as marriage, it's just the term marriage that is being debated.



Hmm, pie.

wick said:
I am against gay marriage because I believe homosexuality is an illness.

And no, I'm not religious.

This is quite amusing.

I hope you aren't suggesting the obsolete 1970s notion that it's a brain disorder.

Homosexuality, much like being left-handed, is controlled by epigenetic markers which promote a predisposition. 

So you are also inadvertently suggesting that being left-handed is an illness.

I'm really not sure what to say to you at this point.



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mai said:
Zkuq said:
mai said:
The most interesting part of the story is not the legalization, but the fact they did it inspite of majority of French stance on the matter.

Actually the majority supports the law.

http://www.liberation.fr/politiques/2013/04/04/mariage-homosexuel-les-francais-pour-mais-ils-rejettent-l-adoption_893559

I can't speak French but Google Translate seems to agree with what I just said: 53% support gay marriage.



fillet said:

Not at all, in fact that sounds like a much better idea than mine! I hadn't thought of it that way round, and it would certainly affect less people since as you correctly point out most marriages aren't based on religous reasoning.

I'm all too ready to be proven wrong and shown a different way :) Maybe it doesn't sound like it because of the way I post but that's not the case, appreciate the response and direct answer to my post.


That's nice to hear, I'll admit I mistook you as someone who was going about this from a one-sided manner but it seems you're actually letting this discussion affect what you already think, a rarity in forum discussion of serious topics like this.



...

I am against it for a couple of reasons.

1. It shouldn't be called "marriage", it should be called something else, like "registered partnership" like we have in Sweden. Let the term "marriage" be unique to heterosexual partnerships based on religious and traditional grounds and probably societal grounds (to strengthen the child-nurturing institution that's still important to our society and its stability).

2. It's a hypocritical act. Why only allow homosexual couples to marry but still discriminate other forms of partnerships such as polygamy, siblings wanting to marry a sibling and friends wanting a protected union with several friends?



jake_the_fake1 said:

No, I'd rather these poor unfortunate children have a loving adoptive family comprising of a man and a woman so that the child grows up not only in a loving environment, but also in a balanced home where the child benefits from both male and female attributes. As I've said before, these children have suffered enough.

Please keep in mind the childs welfare and mental state,  think of what happens in schools, kids are brutally honest, especially the younger ones, they will tease other children for absolutely anything but it's more hurtful when it's real such as children getting teased for being adopted, now imagine this child not only getting teased for being adopted but also for having gay parents, this child would be so mentally distraught that they could commit suicide or at least self harm. The thing is bullying/teasing at schools happen, I wish it didn't, but it does. All I am proposing is that we prevent this from happening as much as we can, by removing some of the elements, the child will be better off, again these poor children have suffered enough in their lives, no need to add more misery to their lives.

This is not about gay people, this is about the children, I hope even gay people can understand this point, anyone who doesn't understand , that it's about the child welfare and mental state are just self absorbed, self centered, greedy people who should not be allowed to adopt children, gay or straight.

This is a really ignorant and limited viewpoint.  There are more children in need of being adopted than there are heterosexual couples willing to adopt and qualified (there are strict requirements that need to be met and not every couple does).  I don't see how children placed in homosexual household are worse off than staying in orphanages or going from one house to another until they're 18.

The other point to gay adoption is that many gays already have kids, either from a previous heterosexual relationship or because one of them (like one of the lesbians in a lesbian couple) chooses to have a kid (by artificial insemination for example).  What they want is for their partner to be able to legally adopt the child so that the child can have two legal guardians.  Do you suggest that a child be taken away from his only legal parent just so that he can have a chance at being adopted by a heterosexual couple?  Not only that, but adoption by singles is allowed, so this whole idea that kids should only be able to be adopted by heterosexual couples is just ridiculous.

Your view point summarizes well most of the opponents of gay marriage in France.  Their slogan throughout all their manifestations was "One mother, one father".  Such a viewpoint is quite frankly put, stupid.  Those opposed kept saying that it was a child's right to be raised in a household with one mother and one father, yet many families today don't have two parents of opposite genders.  Should we outlaw single-parent households and force those parents to remarry just so that a child can have two parents?  Ridiculous.  There are so many one-parent households, or recomposed families with stepmothers and stepfathers.  People act like 100% of children today grow up with exactly two opposite sex parents and that allowing gay adoption and gay marriage would prevent a child from having what ALL the other children have. 

So many children need families.  Or are already in families but one in which one of the parents has no legal rights on them.  It is quite foolish to deprive children of a family just because of some outdated notion that every child must grow up with exactly two opposite sex parents.



dsgrue3 said:
wick said:
I am against gay marriage because I believe homosexuality is an illness.

And no, I'm not religious.

This is quite amusing.

I hope you aren't suggesting the obsolete 1970s notion that it's a brain disorder.

Homosexuality, much like being left-handed, is controlled by epigenetic markers which promote a predisposition

So you are also inadvertently suggesting that being left-handed is an illness.

I'm really not sure what to say to you at this point.

You're talking against facts here because you hope that to be the case, while we in fact don't know that to be the case.

I personally, partially based on my experience as a medical doctor and because there are studies that suggest it, believe that homosexuality largely is caused by dysfunctional hormonal regulation during embryonal development, which would be enough to meet the criteria for it to be classified as a "brain disorder" (that's how diagnostics work).

I do believe that some homosexuality is programmed and even selected for at the genetical level too, but we don't have clear evidence for that yet.

Note that I don't think this is dramatic in any way because "disorder" doesn't automatically mean something can be or should be "cured".