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Forums - General - Could you and Jesus be friends?

 

Could you and Jesus be friends?

Yes: he has some teachings I can relate to. 23 65.71%
 
No: I don't like his tea... 9 25.71%
 
What have others said? 3 8.57%
 
Total:35
wfz said:
We could never be friends. He would take the blame for everything and I would feel incredibly guilty watching him suffer for reprimands I should be receiving.

And that might even lead me down a dark path of doing terrible things because I know he'd take responsibility for it....

Funny but also very true.



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dsgrue3 said:
DaRev said:

Ok, the bible can be a bit excessive at times, I guess especially with regard to it punishments and how it describes them. But remember that this was a woman that was doing all kinds of evil and misleading people. How can we know the truth if our leader is misleading us? So  Jesus is saying to the woman that she will be punished, if she does not repent (althought I think he's talking to the Church or wrong teachings, not a particular person).

Yeah the punishment might be excessive, but she (or the Church) was warned and did have a choice.

Moreover, some if not most of this punishement I think happens in the spiritual relm, cuase we have all kinds of adultery happening today and there is seemingly no such severe punishment happening. I think he is just saying that he will destroy your churches and your teachings if you do not repent.

That's an understatement. The punishment for any type of immoral behavior tends to be death.

So if you don't apologize he will destroy your things and/or kill you. Sounds like an infant.

Well, we all die evetually. Plus it's like everying in life today, for example, if you have sex with animals or little children you get throwing in jail. The bible is just a bit more excessive in its description of the punishment.



Nintendo Network ID: DaRevren

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dsgrue3 said:
BasilZero said:

In Matthew 10, Jesus is giving instructions to his disciples prior to sending them out into the region. One topic is the fact that what they will be teaching will not be well received by all who hear it. They will be facing persecution at the hands of the religious rulers and the secular government. But Jesus warns that even members of their own families may turn against them.

Further emphasis on the "Sword and not peace" part is further explained in the below source.

http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVanswers/2007/11-12.html

^ In other words people will have different beliefs even among family members. There isnt a  family in the world that all believe in the same thing or think alike - it is that difference that divides families.

A further example is written here in Matt 24:9 expanding it from families to nations/population.

http://bible.cc/matthew/24-9.htm

Nope, sorry, your source pulls quotations from the book of John which I'm told isn't the direct quotations of Jesus and is not relevant to this thread.

It is quite clear that Jesus is not a peaceful man by his own admission. As such, I care not to befriend him.

Oh my. You're being really silly now. Book of John is a part of the gospel, and contains a lot of the same stories and events that Matthew does. I'm starting to wonder if you've really read and understood what we're talking about.



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dsgrue3 said:
BasilZero said:

In Matthew 10, Jesus is giving instructions to his disciples prior to sending them out into the region. One topic is the fact that what they will be teaching will not be well received by all who hear it. They will be facing persecution at the hands of the religious rulers and the secular government. But Jesus warns that even members of their own families may turn against them.

Further emphasis on the "Sword and not peace" part is further explained in the below source.

http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVanswers/2007/11-12.html

^ In other words people will have different beliefs even among family members. There isnt a  family in the world that all believe in the same thing or think alike - it is that difference that divides families.

A further example is written here in Matt 24:9 expanding it from families to nations/population.

http://bible.cc/matthew/24-9.htm

Nope, sorry, your source pulls quotations from the book of John which I'm told isn't the direct quotations of Jesus and is not relevant to this thread.

It is quite clear that Jesus is not a peaceful man by his own admission. As such, I care not to befriend him.

All Jesus is saying is that the sword, i.e. his words or teachings, will not be acceptable to all, even among people that are friends or of the same family. For example, imagine an Israeli family that for years has agreed that they must hate Palestinians. Then one member of that family starts believing and following the teachings of Jesus, i.e. to love your enemies.

So, you are incorrect, because Jesus and his teachings are peaceful. Conversely, it is people that are generally not peaceful hear or try to apply his teachings that are not peaceful.



Nintendo Network ID: DaRevren

I love My Wii U, and the potential it brings to gaming.

BasilZero said:
dsgrue3 said:
BasilZero said:

In Matthew 10, Jesus is giving instructions to his disciples prior to sending them out into the region. One topic is the fact that what they will be teaching will not be well received by all who hear it. They will be facing persecution at the hands of the religious rulers and the secular government. But Jesus warns that even members of their own families may turn against them.

Further emphasis on the "Sword and not peace" part is further explained in the below source.

http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVanswers/2007/11-12.html

^ In other words people will have different beliefs even among family members. There isnt a  family in the world that all believe in the same thing or think alike - it is that difference that divides families.

A further example is written here in Matt 24:9 expanding it from families to nations/population.

http://bible.cc/matthew/24-9.htm

Nope, sorry, your source pulls quotations from the book of John which I'm told isn't the direct quotations of Jesus and is not relevant to this thread.

It is quite clear that Jesus is not a peaceful man by his own admission. As such, I care not to befriend him.


@first sentence - Book of Mathew not Revelation or John. Relevant enough to respond to your post.

@second sentence - Your loss if you just look at the words without looking or researching further into the deeper meaning of the words itself.

Apparently you didn't even read your own source as it does not pull anything from Matthew in its explanation. I begins with just the author talking about Matthew using nothing but his own thoughts, then proceeds to quote from John not once, but 3 times and use those as explanations.

Words don't have deeper meanings; sentences may. This sentence has no deeper meaning and makes it clear, in no uncertain terms, that Jesus is not peaceful. His ultimate goal is to spread His concept of truth above all else with no care for those who defy him.



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DaRev said:
Augen said:
That is hard to say. I mean I get along with most people as have agreeable disposition, but not sure what Jesus (assuming he existed) would be like given all accounts came from secondary sources after his death. If he was a man of bronze age Palestine then we'd likely have very different zeitgeist on basis of cultural shifts and centuries of social upheaval. A very tolerant person even a hundred years ago could seem old fashioned or even hateful to us now.

So, I'd have to let a person speak and have a thoughtful discussion before making a judgment as asked in this thread. My answer is, I do not know and not really sure how anyone could claim to know such a thing.

Understandable, but I think you might be complicating things a bit. For example, if I said to you that we should kill all black people or kill all white people, could you be friends with me, would you need to have a discussion face to face with me to make up your mind of whether to befriend me or not? Jesus said love your enemies, do you agree with that, and based on such other teachings, could you be friends with Jesus?

I think it is a complicated question.  You are asking if I would be friends with someone I have never met, who if they lived did so 2000 years ago and all accounts of their words are second hand.

You are a product of the 20th and 21st century so I have different expectations of someone from that period.  Still, if a secondary source told me "DeRev said we should commit genocide" I would have the decency of letting you explain yourself. Afterall, it could be slander or it could have been taken out of context. Perhaps it was parody or you were trying to illustrate a greater point and had a provocative line to get audience attention.  In any event, I'd let you defend yourself or investigate the matter before coming to a conclusion on your character.

So, again, we do not know what Jesus said.  What we know is people years later wrote about what he said.  What was their motivation for doing so? Why do any accounts differ? What does it tell us about the region, culture or era in history?  I ask these things because Jesus can "say" a whole myriad of things to support the speaker's view.

Now, we move to the idea, which can be separated from the man.  If you think this hard to believe I will submit a more recent historical figure: Thomas Jefferson.  Jefferson is held up as a scholar and great thinker of his time, his writings are well known and respected and the man wrote "All men are created equal" which is a noble sentiment.  However, because we know much more about Jefferson and his lifestyle we know he owned slaves.  This makes things complicated because we respect his work and detest his lifestyle.  So, we have to understand the period of time he existed in.  It does not excuse the practice, but shed light on how cognitive dissonance in such a matter that "all men" meant "all land owning white guys" and how ideas grow and change based on our own experiences and views.

Turning to the notion "love your enemies" I would have to understand better what the notion of love and enemy meant.  I would counter we should strive to better understand one another, because in the vacuum ignorance thrives and breeds hatred.  Thus, we would move towards the removal of labels such as enemies in discourse.  We may not agree or love one another, but I think becoming a more tolerant society is a reasonable expectation to put upon us as a species.

So, I close saying as I did before that my natural instinct is to be friends with anyone I meet, but I cannot speak to someone shrouded by antiquity and interpretations by others.



No way, man. Not after last time.



outlawauron said:
dsgrue3 said:

Nope, sorry, your source pulls quotations from the book of John which I'm told isn't the direct quotations of Jesus and is not relevant to this thread.

It is quite clear that Jesus is not a peaceful man by his own admission. As such, I care not to befriend him.

Oh my. You're being really silly now. Book of John is a part of the gospel, and contains a lot of the same stories and events that Matthew does. I'm starting to wonder if you've really read and understood what we're talking about.

Lol what? You're the same person who said I couldn't apply the book of John to this thread topic just a brief while ago?

outlawauron said:

Revelation was written by John long after Jesus' death and resurrection. While it is indeed considered inspired by God, it doesn't contain the words of Christ which is what Jay was referring to.

 

Contradict yourself much? Lol

 



I voted yes, but I'm beginning to think that I couldn't.

I have many disagreements with my friends, but at least it's possible that I could convince them. Jesus would believe that every belief he holds comes directly from god, so a conversation with him would probably just be him preaching at me. It doesn't sound like very much fun. He would be a handy person to know, though.



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BasilZero said:

The Gospels of John and Mathew are connected hence why they are called "The Gospels". So it isnt a surprise if one gospel draws forth a quote or a similar setting since each gospel is based upon the experiences or the first person view of those who represent each Gospel - (i.e. John in the Gospel of John , Mathew in Gospel of Mathew, etc).

I see nothing wrong with comparing it - its like playing Pokemon with multiple versions, you end up going the same path but see and witness different events (certain legendaries, different enemy teams depending on which ver you play such as Ruby/Sapphire) but in the end they all lead to the same result or conclusion and usually have the same meaning storyline wise.

@second half of your post - Words do have meaning for an example the "Sword" means truth, like the famous saying "Truth hurts". People dont like to hear things they dont want to or things that go against what they believe themselves. He is talking about how the truth (his sword) will cut asunder relations between people even families as everyone in a family will have their own differences and different beliefs, whether it is political, personal, or religious. He knows this will bring division to families and groups thus why he says he brings truth (the sword) and not peace.

If you're okay using John then look at Revelation 2:22-23. (outlawauron made it clear this was not acceptable to him/her.)

Again, words have no ambiguous meaning by themselves. The sentence can change the meaning.

What is unclear to you about "I have not come here for Peace?"