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Forums - Nintendo - Myths about the Legend of Zelda

happydolphin said:
cyberninja45 said:
TheLastStarFighter said:

The first two Zeldas have a heavy action elements and low puzzles.

Zelda 1 you were running around, dodging attacks, shooting boomerangs, arrows and so forth. Very fast past. Some puzzles are present, but they are generally simple and involve pushing blocks or bombing walls or burning bushes.

Zelda 2 is almost an action platformer. A side-to-side action platformer where you run, jump and hack and slash. It has the fewest puzzles of any Zelda, mostly fetch keys and open doors.

Both Zelda 1&2 are dark games by NES standards. Monsters, bats, skeletons, dungeons. Black backgrounds. These are contrasted with brighter times in the overworlds, but the games are not cartoony by any stretch.

Zelda III: ALttP is slightly brighter than the first two and slightly more "cartoony", but not especially so. It's also not overly cartoony relative to other games of the day.

Modern Zeldas are too plodding. When you compare the combat in the orignal 3 games to newer 3D titles, the action is very different. In old Zelda you were quickly stabbing multiple enemies, running in various directions, quickly launching ranged attacks, blocking projectiles and stabbing more foes. In new Zelda you generally lock on to one or two enemies, and wait and time your moves. Very different.

All Zeldas from the original through to MM were done in a way that was as realistic as possible for the technology available at the time. They may look bright or cartoony today, but they weren't back then, not any more than FF or Castlevania or anything else. Games like Wind Waker or SS with its watercolors detract from what should be a realistic, serious adventure. It's not so much the brightness, but the realism. A Zelda game should push the boundaries of a system and present a deep, serious adventure. Of the recent 3 Zeldas, only TP took that approach, and thats why it sold the best.

The idea that Zeldas were more action-focused in the past is not a myth. The idea that Zelda was not cartoony in the past is not a myth. Us older Zelda fans like us some action and we like a serious focus. All Zeldas are good in their own way, but seeing ALttP 2 is very exciting, and so are the comments that Zelda U will look for inspiration from the earliest Zelda games.

I think you are making the games out for far more than they actually are though. Ninja gaiden , Contra, Battletoads, Shadow of the ninja these are examples of  action heavy games on the nes, you make link sound like an agile ninja in the game when he controlled closer to a tank.

Also I think the limitation of the tech and the inexperience of the developers is what gives those darker tones rather it being purposely so, for example compare the first Super mario Bros with Mario bros 3 no doubt the first one has a "darker" tone and color scheme. Yes LTTP is more cartoony  than your average snes game.

                                

But it isn't this:

Thankfully the game also has some darker tones:

 

IMO LttP2 doesn't looks like a 2.5D Minish Cap:

Just out of curiousity. do you think this screenshot of LttP2 looks better?:



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It wasn't inexperience with the art that made it dark. Look at secret of mana. That game is a lot brighter.



I just want Zelda games all the time.

I have always looked and played Zelda games as realistic, games, execpt LTTP which felt more cartoonish to me... even more than WW.

However i do make a difference between home console and portable games. The portable ones they always feel different and less serious in a way.



Switch!!!

Veknoid_Outcast said:
KHlover said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:
With a fanbase so knowledgeable and passionate, there are bound to be quibbles about art direction, mechanics, and tone. Nothing wrong with that.

However, I'm of the opinion that all the games in the series conform to a certain formula, so it's strange to me when someone claims to hate Phantom Hourglass and love Ocarina, or hate Wind Waker and love A Link to the Past.

I also strongly disagree with fans who dislike Aonuma. I believe he's done great things for the franchise.

What is so strange about it? Phantom Hourglass is basically a 2D Zelda, whereas Ocarina of Time is a 3D Zelda game. These games play completely different, it is quite understandable if someone loves one of them and hates the other. Even more extreme with Wind Waker and A Link to the Past which play COMPLETELY different.

Well, that's the thing. I don't believe they play very different at all.

I think the 2D and 3D Zelda games play completely different. Different puzzles, different combat system, different pacing...it just continues from there...



KHlover said:

IMO LttP2 doesn't looks like a 2.5D Minish Cap:

Just out of curiousity. do you think this screenshot of LttP2 looks better?:


I'm not sure I understand your question, but in case I did, I'll just say I didn't like the color style of Minish Cap, but at least the detail is more interesting than what we're seeing of Lttp2. Having said that, in Zelda at times less is more. However, that is not the case if it makes the objects look like playskool toys.



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happydolphin said:
cyberninja45 said:
TheLastStarFighter said:

The first two Zeldas have a heavy action elements and low puzzles.

Zelda 1 you were running around, dodging attacks, shooting boomerangs, arrows and so forth. Very fast past. Some puzzles are present, but they are generally simple and involve pushing blocks or bombing walls or burning bushes.

Zelda 2 is almost an action platformer. A side-to-side action platformer where you run, jump and hack and slash. It has the fewest puzzles of any Zelda, mostly fetch keys and open doors.

Both Zelda 1&2 are dark games by NES standards. Monsters, bats, skeletons, dungeons. Black backgrounds. These are contrasted with brighter times in the overworlds, but the games are not cartoony by any stretch.

Zelda III: ALttP is slightly brighter than the first two and slightly more "cartoony", but not especially so. It's also not overly cartoony relative to other games of the day.

Modern Zeldas are too plodding. When you compare the combat in the orignal 3 games to newer 3D titles, the action is very different. In old Zelda you were quickly stabbing multiple enemies, running in various directions, quickly launching ranged attacks, blocking projectiles and stabbing more foes. In new Zelda you generally lock on to one or two enemies, and wait and time your moves. Very different.

All Zeldas from the original through to MM were done in a way that was as realistic as possible for the technology available at the time. They may look bright or cartoony today, but they weren't back then, not any more than FF or Castlevania or anything else. Games like Wind Waker or SS with its watercolors detract from what should be a realistic, serious adventure. It's not so much the brightness, but the realism. A Zelda game should push the boundaries of a system and present a deep, serious adventure. Of the recent 3 Zeldas, only TP took that approach, and thats why it sold the best.

The idea that Zeldas were more action-focused in the past is not a myth. The idea that Zelda was not cartoony in the past is not a myth. Us older Zelda fans like us some action and we like a serious focus. All Zeldas are good in their own way, but seeing ALttP 2 is very exciting, and so are the comments that Zelda U will look for inspiration from the earliest Zelda games.

I think you are making the games out for far more than they actually are though. Ninja gaiden , Contra, Battletoads, Shadow of the ninja these are examples of  action heavy games on the nes, you make link sound like an agile ninja in the game when he controlled closer to a tank.

Also I think the limitation of the tech and the inexperience of the developers is what gives those darker tones rather it being purposely so, for example compare the first Super mario Bros with Mario bros 3 no doubt the first one has a "darker" tone and color scheme. Yes LTTP is more cartoony  than your average snes game.

                                

But it isn't this:

 

Thankfully the game also has some darker tones:

But the choice in colors for the overworld is inexcusable. It has no appeal and looks like Playskool art:

 

Or like cheezy cgi:

 


             

There isn't that much difference when the pic is not over bloated.



My 3ds friendcode: 5413-0232-9676 (G-cyber)



cyberninja45 said:


             

There isn't that much difference when the pic is not over bloated.

You don't see the difference in brightness. That means that it's a question of perception.



KHlover said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:
KHlover said:

What is so strange about it? Phantom Hourglass is basically a 2D Zelda, whereas Ocarina of Time is a 3D Zelda game. These games play completely different, it is quite understandable if someone loves one of them and hates the other. Even more extreme with Wind Waker and A Link to the Past which play COMPLETELY different.

Well, that's the thing. I don't believe they play very different at all.

I think the 2D and 3D Zelda games play completely different. Different puzzles, different combat system, different pacing...it just continues from there...

I'm looking at something deeper than the types of puzzles or the combat systems. All Zelda games conform to a certain prototype of non-linear action-adventure. They offer a healthy balance between action elements like real-time combat and physical challenges, and adventure elements like exploration, puzzle-solving, dialogue, and story. All Zelda games share these features, no matter the art direction, no matter the perspective, no matter the dimensions.



Maybe I'm in the minority, but I like the way it looks ALTTP2 and Yoshi Island 3DS.



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Veknoid_Outcast said:
KHlover said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:
With a fanbase so knowledgeable and passionate, there are bound to be quibbles about art direction, mechanics, and tone. Nothing wrong with that.

However, I'm of the opinion that all the games in the series conform to a certain formula, so it's strange to me when someone claims to hate Phantom Hourglass and love Ocarina, or hate Wind Waker and love A Link to the Past.

I also strongly disagree with fans who dislike Aonuma. I believe he's done great things for the franchise.

What is so strange about it? Phantom Hourglass is basically a 2D Zelda, whereas Ocarina of Time is a 3D Zelda game. These games play completely different, it is quite understandable if someone loves one of them and hates the other. Even more extreme with Wind Waker and A Link to the Past which play COMPLETELY different.

Well, that's the thing. I don't believe they play very different at all.

I kinda agree with you all zelda's have basically followed the same formula from LTTP.



My 3ds friendcode: 5413-0232-9676 (G-cyber)