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Forums - Sony - Epic VP 'PS4 is like a really perfect gaming PC'

ethomaz on 02 April 2013
Homeroids said:

He made a good point about the 32bit vs 64bit. Even though a good percentage of PC owners have Windows 7 which is predominately 64bit, as far as I know, all PC games are 32bit executables which does restrict memory addressing to a max of 4GB. Was just searching the web to see if there is such thing as a Crysis 3 64bit EXE. I don't think there is. Though Crytek recommend a PC with 8GB, this would ensure the EXE gets a full 4GB with Windows having access for the rest. But I would think if any developer makes a cross platform game, most likely it will be native 32bit because of PC legacy.

Interesting point though. Does this mean in theory, that PS4 and 720 games could always be compiled in 64bit which equates to the full memory being adressible? This was all irrelevant with the last consoles since RAM was so small.

I think in the PS4, there will be a reserve or portion of the 8GB GDDR5 for the system; who knows, maybe 2GB, but I think it is safe to assume that gaming on the PS4 can access more than the 32bit limit of 4GB.

A 32bits system can't see 4GB because there is hardware allocation address memory... my notebook even with 8GB RAM can see only 2.9GB with Windows 32bits... that's depends of the hardware manufacturer (mine is Lenovo)... the max I see a Windows 32bits using memory was 3.5GB even so the Windows XP uses ~500MB... so ~3GB for game if you have any other application closed.

4GB is the theorical maximum for 32bits system... in fact the number is lower than that.

I agree with you all games uses 32bits executables but not only that the dynamic libraries used (DLL) by the executable to accesse the SO resourcers are 32bits too... I think it is hard to create a full 64bits game today because you will have to convert everything created and used for the game in 64bits too.

And even the Windows 8 have 32bits version yet... sad but true.



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happydolphin on 02 April 2013

Mark Rein is an idiot. /article

A PC is a PC, a console is a console, now stfu please and thanks.



Homeroids on 03 April 2013
ethomaz said:
Homeroids said:

He made a good point about the 32bit vs 64bit. Even though a good percentage of PC owners have Windows 7 which is predominately 64bit, as far as I know, all PC games are 32bit executables which does restrict memory addressing to a max of 4GB. Was just searching the web to see if there is such thing as a Crysis 3 64bit EXE. I don't think there is. Though Crytek recommend a PC with 8GB, this would ensure the EXE gets a full 4GB with Windows having access for the rest. But I would think if any developer makes a cross platform game, most likely it will be native 32bit because of PC legacy.

Interesting point though. Does this mean in theory, that PS4 and 720 games could always be compiled in 64bit which equates to the full memory being adressible? This was all irrelevant with the last consoles since RAM was so small.

I think in the PS4, there will be a reserve or portion of the 8GB GDDR5 for the system; who knows, maybe 2GB, but I think it is safe to assume that gaming on the PS4 can access more than the 32bit limit of 4GB.

A 32bits system can't see 4GB because there is hardware allocation address memory... my notebook even with 8GB RAM can see only 2.9GB with Windows 32bits... that's depends of the hardware manufacturer (mine is Lenovo)... the max I see a Windows 32bits using memory was 3.5GB even so the Windows XP uses ~500MB... so ~3GB for game if you have any other application closed.

4GB is the theorical maximum for 32bits system... in fact the number is lower than that.

I agree with you all games uses 32bits executables but not only that the dynamic libraries used (DLL) by the executable to accesse the SO resourcers are 32bits too... I think it is hard to create a full 64bits game today because you will have to convert everything created and used for the game in 64bits too.

And even the Windows 8 have 32bits version yet... sad but true.

A full 32bit (ie hardware and O/S) cannot see the 4GB at all. I agree. Windows 32bit will only allow up to about 3GB for one program. If you read carefully what I said on a 64bit machine with a 64 bit O/S, programs can now access more than 4GB if the EXE is also 64 bit. However, no games are currently 64 bit. So there are 3 conditions:

1. 64 bit hardware

2. 64 bit O/S

3. 64 bit executable

In the case of modern games on a full 64 bit platform, the absolute limit the executable will address is 2 to the power of 32 or 4GB. So when Crytek recommend Crysis 3 on an 8GB system they are in effect saying that we can use almost a complete 4gb for just the game EXE. No more. But you still need to satisfy points 1 and 2 above.

Also, one reason game makers don't create 64 bit exe's is because the fact is Windows XP is still a very popular O/S.

64 bit applications are far more important with things like SQL.



Stinky on 03 April 2013

Once again consoles push the state of the art. Next gen will standardize games engines on 64-bit mmap techniques and GPU compute offload, just as the current gen drove the state of unified shaders and multicore, threaded engines.

Will PC continue to languish in 32-bit hacks, or will it finally abandon the shackles of the past?



S.T.A.G.E. on 03 April 2013
wfz said:
This is very true if you believe that power is the only thing that makes PC gaming awesome. Then again, if you believe that, your PC is likely already more powerful than the PS4.

And this is untrue for the rest of us who enjoy PC gaming for reasons other than specs.


Other then specs what is there to make PC gaming so superior?



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BluGamer23 on 03 April 2013
justinian said:
BluGamer23 said:

The perfect gaming pc for people who cant afford a perfect gaming PC.

This mark rein person been talking a lot...


Not at all. The perfect gaming PC for people that want to play games like Uncharted, GT and a whole lot of other exclusive games that will never be on a PC and at the same time play pretty much every decent PC game that will be on the PS4.

Also having a far larger online community with games like COD that sells millions on PS and only a "handful" on the PC. "Handful" is used relatively.

Yeah, I would say that it is the "perfect gaming PC".


nah... the perfect game pc is an actual gaming pc.. not a console.



 

 

walsufnir on 03 April 2013
VGKing said:
Slimebeast said:
Almost nuffin beats the PS4. It's the new PS3.

Not at all. It's actually the completely opposite.
The major change being that its easy to develop for.

So Sony finally catches up with MS. Good for devs.



S.T.A.G.E. on 03 April 2013
BluGamer23 said:
justinian said:
BluGamer23 said:

The perfect gaming pc for people who cant afford a perfect gaming PC.

This mark rein person been talking a lot...


Not at all. The perfect gaming PC for people that want to play games like Uncharted, GT and a whole lot of other exclusive games that will never be on a PC and at the same time play pretty much every decent PC game that will be on the PS4.

Also having a far larger online community with games like COD that sells millions on PS and only a "handful" on the PC. "Handful" is used relatively.

Yeah, I would say that it is the "perfect gaming PC".


nah... the perfect game pc is an actual gaming pc.. not a console.


Theres no such thing as a perfect gaming PC because PC's put specs before games, therefore satisfaction is harder to attain and changes with the season. Its easier to gain perfection from great one time specs and multitudes of games made for said specs.  Games > Specs= Consoles.

Think of it as mating:

-You could lust after the best looking girl in the world, but in the end she might not be enough for you where it counts. You might end up putting more time into a hollow but satisfyingly sexual relationship hoping it will last, but sooner or late you'll get bored and want to upgrade. 

-Or just find a lasting love that keeps giving, instead of you putting all the work into the relationship yourself. Built to give you everything in one. Instead of you reinventing her, she reinvents herself with all the things that matter and surprise you in her own special way, time and time again.

Whats that thing they say about love again? Oh yeah.

If you love her you'll take her as she is.



DieAppleDie on 03 April 2013

No, its not. CPU is to week.



walsufnir on 03 April 2013
ethomaz said:
Homeroids said:

He made a good point about the 32bit vs 64bit. Even though a good percentage of PC owners have Windows 7 which is predominately 64bit, as far as I know, all PC games are 32bit executables which does restrict memory addressing to a max of 4GB. Was just searching the web to see if there is such thing as a Crysis 3 64bit EXE. I don't think there is. Though Crytek recommend a PC with 8GB, this would ensure the EXE gets a full 4GB with Windows having access for the rest. But I would think if any developer makes a cross platform game, most likely it will be native 32bit because of PC legacy.

Interesting point though. Does this mean in theory, that PS4 and 720 games could always be compiled in 64bit which equates to the full memory being adressible? This was all irrelevant with the last consoles since RAM was so small.

I think in the PS4, there will be a reserve or portion of the 8GB GDDR5 for the system; who knows, maybe 2GB, but I think it is safe to assume that gaming on the PS4 can access more than the 32bit limit of 4GB.

A 32bits system can't see 4GB because there is hardware allocation address memory... my notebook even with 8GB RAM can see only 2.9GB with Windows 32bits... that's depends of the hardware manufacturer (mine is Lenovo)... the max I see a Windows 32bits using memory was 3.5GB even so the Windows XP uses ~500MB... so ~3GB for game if you have any other application closed.

4GB is the theorical maximum for 32bits system... in fact the number is lower than that.

I agree with you all games uses 32bits executables but not only that the dynamic libraries used (DLL) by the executable to accesse the SO resourcers are 32bits too... I think it is hard to create a full 64bits game today because you will have to convert everything created and used for the game in 64bits too.

And even the Windows 8 have 32bits version yet... sad but true.

You have a notebook with 8GB RAM and use a 32-Bit-Windows? ;) The "hole" is the result of IO-devices residing also in memory and they block usable ram-areas. Again, 4GB is not the maximum for a 32-bit-system, this issue has been resolved since ages and is revolved by PAE. The maximum ram available to an application is not 3GB ram, it is in fact 2 GB, even with all applications closed because there are more "applications" running than you started ;) The processor doesn't even know "application", it knows a "context".