Zero console recognition from casuals, People still think the controller is an add-on to the wii (can you blame them), lack luster/non existant marketing, PS3/360 have an excellent library of games and comparable graphics fro cheaper. Conclusion: All Nintendos fault.

There is no question having main games will increase WiiU's sales.

The flawed assumption this OP makes is in thinking that Nintendo fans are expecting another Wii. There are not. In a poll on the subject 80% of people (on this site) expected WiiU to sell less than 80M and the majority less than 60m.

Despite a few optimistic few who said 100m+ (and time could prove them right) there is no assumption that WiiU will be another Wii or PS2, just that good games will sell systems at a reasonable amount and this is a reasonable argument. Unless you can provide a reason why they wouldn't.

GC was hindered by it's own design, lack of DVD play and later, lack of online play. Sony also smeared it with a 'kiddie system' stigma that it took years for Nintendo to break even with games like Eternal Darkness, Geist and it's fair share of M games like True Crime, Splinter Cell, etc. It took Wii's appeal to people's moms and grandma's to break the 'kiddie' label.

WiiU doesn't have these hold-backs although I feel the gamepad itself will be a significant hold back to sales but that's another matter.

Nintendo mainline franchises will sell WiiU systems at a rate normal for Nintendo home consoles. Nintendo fans are right to make that argument. Don't assume they assume another 100m seller because that is not the case for the vast majority of them.

Sony didnt smear anybody with anything, stop it. No one told Ninty to make their console look like a purple lunch box, Ninty smeared themselves and yes mature games came...eventually. You have to come out the gate swinging with everything. Yes i know they had other colors, i had the platinum one myself, but they were not their day 1.

PS2 played DVD's.

Going back to this point for a second: I believe that the Gamepad is a serious problem, second only to the current lack of software. And unlike the software issue, the Gamepad problem is going to stay with the system for the rest of its life.

Simply put, the Gamepad is not just unappealing, I believe it is an active deterrent for many people. When they designed the Wii, Nintendo created the Wiimote primarily because their data indicated the general public found dual analogue controllers to be intimidating, unweildly, and off-putting. The Wiimote, with its streamlined simplicity and familiar design, was intended as the inviting antidote to those problems. Nintendo realized that playing might be believing...but if the control is so alienating that people refuse to try playing, they'll never get around to believing.

Fast forward six years and Nintendo seems to have forgotten that lesson, along with several others that made it an unprecedented success last generation. The gamepad shares all the drawbacks of dual analogue controllers - it basically is a dual-analogue controller - along with a slew of new ones. It now looks bulky and unweildly, the giant screen in the middle is something of a headscratcher, and it seems to be far less suited to motion controls that its predecessor. One can't even argue that it looks like a tablet: a tablet is simple and streamlined, with only a few,well-disguised buttons. The gamepad has buttons and sticks and doodads all up the wazoo: it's like Frankenstein raided a Circuit City.

You're not honestly asserting...

Actually, let me take a step back. What, exactly, are you asserting here?

Your talking about exclusives and how Halo is known, but in fact Nintendo had a similar number of exclusives compared to the Xbox based on Wikipedia(96 for GC, 94 for Xbox). I won't put the PS2 in there because it had more than double the number of exclusives of GC and Xbox together thanks to the high sales.

I've never heard of Amped, Blinx 2, Breakdown, Crimson Sea, Deathrow, Gunvalkyrie and many other exclusive Xbox games I saw on Wikipedia, but they still exist.

Also, a few western styled games from Nintendo with IPs created in the GC era: Eternal Darkness, Geist and Battalion Wars. If we count third-party games and older IPs though, we can count a few more.

And I'm sure the Wii has had the most exclusives over any console, but there is a stark difference between AAA exclusives and shovelware. Many GC exclusives were flops. None made people buy a console like Halo did.

I haven't heard of those exclusives so why mention them? They were not the ones that sold the console....so what are you on about?

You have lost focus. I'm not, and have never talked about VOLUME of exclusives. I am talking about SUCCESSFUL EXCLUSIVES THAT HELP PUSH A CONSOLE (and which were new and original, not part of an old and popular series eg. GT or FF)

If that's the case, then PS2 barely had any either, its big hitters were almost all franchises dating back to older generations, like Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo, Grand Theft Auto, and Metal Gear Solid, Madden, etc.

Well, did Killzone sell the PS2 for anyone? Still, it was mentioned by you in the first post you made replying to me. I guess we both lost focus here? I don't even know what we're discussing anymore after your post.

Let's make an overview of our discussion. Your argument about the low GC sales was that the games were not new and fresh and you mentioned a few multiplatform games(that also were on the Gamecube) and exclusive games for either the PS2 and Xbox to justify your point. Then I said your argument was invalid because the multiplatform games you mentioned were on the Gamecube and it also had exclusives. Then you said it didn't mattered because you didn't know GC's exclusive games(which is subjective, as someone else might know them) but knew PS2 and Xbox's exclusives, therefore Nintendo didn't offered enough franchises, which is what the West wanted at the time. That's where the volume of exclusives came into discussion, as your point was that Nintendo didn't offered enough franchises, even though based on Wikipedia's claims GC actually has more exclusives than Xbox(because you mentioned Halo on your posts). I believe you changed your argument during the discussion, not me.

if you read the whole thing, you would see. He made a statement about how SOny had a smear campaign calling GC kiddie. Unless someone could find me a commercial where they did that, it if false. Ninty gave themself that image, if we are being honest