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Forums - General - This is the Real China.

kain_kusanagi on 21 March 2013
dahuman said:
kain_kusanagi said:
freedomland said:
Who is behind this false propaganda? Tragedy can come across anybody anywhere.
And why is he writing on the paper like some advertisement, he would've talked, it could've been more convincing.
I lived there for 3 years, I find Chinese people really peaceful and loving.

The attack could have happened anywhere, but what happend after that doesn't. What makes his story so bad is that he was convicted for self defense and then thrown in a hell hole of a prison for 4 years. He isn't criticizing the Chinese people. He is criticizing the Chinese legal system and government as well as the lack of support from his own government.

 


In the ancient old days, if you stole from somebody, your hands were chopped off then they tossed you in the streets. In a country full of Chinese people where a white person killed a Chinese person? He's lucky he only got 4-5 years, because it could have been worse, like death by rocks and boulders or straight up execution without blind folds. I'd say China has become much more civil these days compared to way way back. Who the hell does he think he is that a country as powerless on military as Canada would help him get out? Every life has a price, and when you are in China, life is dirt cheap unless you are the Canadian Prime Minister.

Everything you said is true, but that doesn't excuse China's treatment of a man forced to defend himself. If he was a Canadian visiting New York City and a gang jumped him and his friend and he unfortunately killed one of his attackers while defending himself he may not have even been arrested. Even if he was arrested after the evidence and witness accounts came to light he would have been released and there would have been no trial. The attackers would have been arrested and criminally charged for assault, but not a man defending himself.

That's the point of this video. Anyone who thinks China has moved past it's human rights problems is kidding themselves. China has a lot of money and power, but it couldn't be more different from nations like Canada or the USA where you have certain unalienable rights. Even if he was wrongly convicted in the USA the prison system conditions he described can't be found anywhere north of the Mexican border and I doubt even Mexican prisons are as bad as he describes his Chinese imprisonment.

The Canadian Prime Minster has no more power to get a foreign national out of a Chinese prison as the Presidents of the USA, France or PMs of England or Russia. Anything the Chinese government does is legal within its borders and unless you're going to trade something or someone the Chinese government doesn't have to do anything. It's not a failure of politics it's a failure of Chinese human rights management.

So don't excuse China's behavior by saying it could be worse and other nations do worse. China could do better and should be better.



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hsrob on 21 March 2013
SamuelRSmith said:
hsrob said:

I love many things about China but that just isn't true.  Maybe a Han Chinese person experiences no racism in China but I've personally seen overt racism towards minority groups in China as well as foreigners. Some nationalities get treated very favourably, others, like some of my friends from Ghana and Cameroon, not so well.  Not to mention I very quickly learned some not so nice Chinese words for foreigners because you can hear every time you go out in public.

Again, on balance, I don't think it's a big issue there, it's more based on fear of the unfamiliar and it was rarely (but not never) aggressive.  I would say though China has barely had the opportunity to be racist yet, I have never been to any other country where the number of outsiders is so staggeringly low.  I lived in a city of 2 million people and there were usually less than 20 non-Chinese in the city at any one time. I suspect Chinese people will adapt but if not,  it could become a bigger issue as more and more non-Chinese start working and settling in China.

You're also missing out the massively obvious one... Japanese.

Although this is understandable, as the schools maintain an extremely strong anti-Japanese education, mainly to distract attentions from the actions of China's own Government.

I was leaving that one alone because historic justification is always provided,  not to mention the government publicly encourages racism against Japanese.



dahuman on 21 March 2013
kain_kusanagi said:
dahuman said:
kain_kusanagi said:
freedomland said:
Who is behind this false propaganda? Tragedy can come across anybody anywhere.
And why is he writing on the paper like some advertisement, he would've talked, it could've been more convincing.
I lived there for 3 years, I find Chinese people really peaceful and loving.

The attack could have happened anywhere, but what happend after that doesn't. What makes his story so bad is that he was convicted for self defense and then thrown in a hell hole of a prison for 4 years. He isn't criticizing the Chinese people. He is criticizing the Chinese legal system and government as well as the lack of support from his own government.

 


In the ancient old days, if you stole from somebody, your hands were chopped off then they tossed you in the streets. In a country full of Chinese people where a white person killed a Chinese person? He's lucky he only got 4-5 years, because it could have been worse, like death by rocks and boulders or straight up execution without blind folds. I'd say China has become much more civil these days compared to way way back. Who the hell does he think he is that a country as powerless on military as Canada would help him get out? Every life has a price, and when you are in China, life is dirt cheap unless you are the Canadian Prime Minister.

Everything you said is true, but that doesn't excuse China's treatment of a man forced to defend himself. If he was a Canadian visiting New York City and a gang jumped him and his friend and he unfortunately killed one of his attackers while defending himself he may not have even been arrested. Even if he was arrested after the evidence and witness accounts came to light he would have been released and there would have been no trial. The attackers would have been arrested and criminally charged for assault, but not a man defending himself.

That's the point of this video. Anyone who thinks China has moved past it's human rights problems is kidding themselves. China has a lot of money and power, but it couldn't be more different from nations like Canada or the USA where you have certain unalienable rights. Even if he was wrongly convicted in the USA the prison system conditions he described can't be found anywhere north of the Mexican border and I doubt even Mexican prisons are as bad as he describes his Chinese imprisonment.

The Canadian Prime Minster has no more power to get a foreign national out of a Chinese prison as the Presidents of the USA, France or PMs of England or Russia. Anything the Chinese government does is legal within its borders and unless you're going to trade something or someone the Chinese government doesn't have to do anything. It's not a failure of politics it's a failure of Chinese human rights management.

So don't excuse China's behavior by saying it could be worse and other nations do worse. China could do better and should be better.

 


This is the thing that a lot of people don't get or understand: Their country, their rules, anybody who thinks otherwise and thinks that China should be run according to the standards of what people in other countries think are ridiculous as most people can't even agree about how their own country is running.

"If that had happened in the USA scenerio" doesn't even matter, because it DIDN'T happen in the US. People who think it could be "better" apparently don't understand that what they have might not actually be "worse" but just different. Remember that beliefs are not chosen by birth but taught, that includes standards and religion. Not to mention people always want what benefits themselves, only very few think of the overall, so if this guy has a problem with China, he can choose to never go back instead of sprouting shit that really would just result in earning him money and change absolutely nothing.

Not to mention it doesn't matter the circumstance, if a man killed somebody in your family, no matter the reason, I doubt you can logically go: "Well, my family member deserves it, it's okay that he got killed by a total stranger." The fact is that he is an outsider in that country, as far as China is concerned, JUSTICE was served.



NintendoPie on 21 March 2013

Some of the things (that he said) are very sad. But really? Not going to China because of this? Are you going to lock yourself up in your house forever or something? Because, you know, this isn't an incident confined to China.

This happens all over the world.



kain_kusanagi on 21 March 2013
dahuman said:
kain_kusanagi said:
dahuman said:
kain_kusanagi said:
freedomland said:
Who is behind this false propaganda? Tragedy can come across anybody anywhere.
And why is he writing on the paper like some advertisement, he would've talked, it could've been more convincing.
I lived there for 3 years, I find Chinese people really peaceful and loving.

The attack could have happened anywhere, but what happend after that doesn't. What makes his story so bad is that he was convicted for self defense and then thrown in a hell hole of a prison for 4 years. He isn't criticizing the Chinese people. He is criticizing the Chinese legal system and government as well as the lack of support from his own government.

 


In the ancient old days, if you stole from somebody, your hands were chopped off then they tossed you in the streets. In a country full of Chinese people where a white person killed a Chinese person? He's lucky he only got 4-5 years, because it could have been worse, like death by rocks and boulders or straight up execution without blind folds. I'd say China has become much more civil these days compared to way way back. Who the hell does he think he is that a country as powerless on military as Canada would help him get out? Every life has a price, and when you are in China, life is dirt cheap unless you are the Canadian Prime Minister.

Everything you said is true, but that doesn't excuse China's treatment of a man forced to defend himself. If he was a Canadian visiting New York City and a gang jumped him and his friend and he unfortunately killed one of his attackers while defending himself he may not have even been arrested. Even if he was arrested after the evidence and witness accounts came to light he would have been released and there would have been no trial. The attackers would have been arrested and criminally charged for assault, but not a man defending himself.

That's the point of this video. Anyone who thinks China has moved past it's human rights problems is kidding themselves. China has a lot of money and power, but it couldn't be more different from nations like Canada or the USA where you have certain unalienable rights. Even if he was wrongly convicted in the USA the prison system conditions he described can't be found anywhere north of the Mexican border and I doubt even Mexican prisons are as bad as he describes his Chinese imprisonment.

The Canadian Prime Minster has no more power to get a foreign national out of a Chinese prison as the Presidents of the USA, France or PMs of England or Russia. Anything the Chinese government does is legal within its borders and unless you're going to trade something or someone the Chinese government doesn't have to do anything. It's not a failure of politics it's a failure of Chinese human rights management.

So don't excuse China's behavior by saying it could be worse and other nations do worse. China could do better and should be better.

 


This is the thing that a lot of people don't get or understand: Their country, their rules, anybody who thinks otherwise and thinks that China should be run according to the standards of what people in other countries think are ridiculous as most people can't even agree about how their own country is running.

"If that had happened in the USA scenerio" doesn't even matter, because it DIDN'T happen in the US. People who think it could be "better" apparently don't understand that what they have might not actually be "worse" but just different. Remember that beliefs are not chosen by birth but taught, that includes standards and religion. Not to mention people always want what benefits themselves, only very few think of the overall, so if this guy has a problem with China, he can choose to never go back instead of sprouting shit that really would just result in earning him money and change absolutely nothing.

Not to mention it doesn't matter the circumstance, if a man killed somebody in your family, no matter the reason, I doubt you can logically go: "Well, my family member deserves it, it's okay that he got killed by a total stranger." The fact is that he is and outsider in that country, as far as China is concerned, JUSTICE was served.

I'm flabbergasted by your reply. I honestly don't know how you can see justice in what was done to him for defending himself. By this man's account the Chinese "justice" system is clearly worse than nations like the USA, Canada, Germany, England, etc.

In responce to your example I will say that the reason I would react emotionally to the death of a loved one, justified or not, is the reason that I would not be allowed on the jury. An impartial justice system assumes innocence until proven guilty.



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fordy on 21 March 2013

This might sound cruel, but this was somebody who was in China purely to get his products made cheaply. If you expect a place with cheap labour to NOT be dangerous, then you're living in a dreamland.

The solution? Stop getting products made in China.



dahuman on 21 March 2013
kain_kusanagi said:
dahuman said:
kain_kusanagi said:
dahuman said:
kain_kusanagi said:
freedomland said:
Who is behind this false propaganda? Tragedy can come across anybody anywhere.
And why is he writing on the paper like some advertisement, he would've talked, it could've been more convincing.
I lived there for 3 years, I find Chinese people really peaceful and loving.

The attack could have happened anywhere, but what happend after that doesn't. What makes his story so bad is that he was convicted for self defense and then thrown in a hell hole of a prison for 4 years. He isn't criticizing the Chinese people. He is criticizing the Chinese legal system and government as well as the lack of support from his own government.

 


In the ancient old days, if you stole from somebody, your hands were chopped off then they tossed you in the streets. In a country full of Chinese people where a white person killed a Chinese person? He's lucky he only got 4-5 years, because it could have been worse, like death by rocks and boulders or straight up execution without blind folds. I'd say China has become much more civil these days compared to way way back. Who the hell does he think he is that a country as powerless on military as Canada would help him get out? Every life has a price, and when you are in China, life is dirt cheap unless you are the Canadian Prime Minister.

Everything you said is true, but that doesn't excuse China's treatment of a man forced to defend himself. If he was a Canadian visiting New York City and a gang jumped him and his friend and he unfortunately killed one of his attackers while defending himself he may not have even been arrested. Even if he was arrested after the evidence and witness accounts came to light he would have been released and there would have been no trial. The attackers would have been arrested and criminally charged for assault, but not a man defending himself.

That's the point of this video. Anyone who thinks China has moved past it's human rights problems is kidding themselves. China has a lot of money and power, but it couldn't be more different from nations like Canada or the USA where you have certain unalienable rights. Even if he was wrongly convicted in the USA the prison system conditions he described can't be found anywhere north of the Mexican border and I doubt even Mexican prisons are as bad as he describes his Chinese imprisonment.

The Canadian Prime Minster has no more power to get a foreign national out of a Chinese prison as the Presidents of the USA, France or PMs of England or Russia. Anything the Chinese government does is legal within its borders and unless you're going to trade something or someone the Chinese government doesn't have to do anything. It's not a failure of politics it's a failure of Chinese human rights management.

So don't excuse China's behavior by saying it could be worse and other nations do worse. China could do better and should be better.

 


This is the thing that a lot of people don't get or understand: Their country, their rules, anybody who thinks otherwise and thinks that China should be run according to the standards of what people in other countries think are ridiculous as most people can't even agree about how their own country is running.

"If that had happened in the USA scenerio" doesn't even matter, because it DIDN'T happen in the US. People who think it could be "better" apparently don't understand that what they have might not actually be "worse" but just different. Remember that beliefs are not chosen by birth but taught, that includes standards and religion. Not to mention people always want what benefits themselves, only very few think of the overall, so if this guy has a problem with China, he can choose to never go back instead of sprouting shit that really would just result in earning him money and change absolutely nothing.

Not to mention it doesn't matter the circumstance, if a man killed somebody in your family, no matter the reason, I doubt you can logically go: "Well, my family member deserves it, it's okay that he got killed by a total stranger." The fact is that he is and outsider in that country, as far as China is concerned, JUSTICE was served.

I'm flabbergasted by your reply. I honestly don't know how you can see justice in what was done to him for defending himself. By this man's account the Chinese "justice" system is clearly worse than nations like the USA, Canada, Germany, England, etc.

In responce to your example I will say that the reason I would react emotionally to the death of a loved one, justified or not, is the reason that I would not be allowed on the jury. An impartial justice system assumes innocence until proven guilty.

 

Because my great country does it so much better?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson_murder_case

That's just a popular one, there are a lot of murderers going free or end up living in riches from their "books" and "media coverages."

There is no "perfect" or even a "good" system. I don't worry about what other people do in their homes unless they come into mine uninvited where they'll meet bullets from my pistol and shotgun is the basic idea. People always hold their own standards to be correct anyways, just like you and I right now. :P



NintendoPie on 21 March 2013
dahuman said:
It's kind funny how he listed No Religion and made it seemed like it's a bad thing as I think that's the smartest policy ever, and expected life to be worth more in a country of 1.3 billion people. I mean, sure, it sucks that happened, but don't list bullshit or obvious shit into the equation to try to get more supporters just because you got unlucky.

What is he talking about "No Religion" anyway? Chinese people do have religion.



TheJimbo1234 on 21 March 2013

Would you expect anything else?

People forget how developed and safe the West is to the rest of the world and also forget that the world does not think or act like us. They are foreign in looks and thought.



dahuman on 21 March 2013
NintendoPie said:
dahuman said:
It's kind funny how he listed No Religion and made it seemed like it's a bad thing as I think that's the smartest policy ever, and expected life to be worth more in a country of 1.3 billion people. I mean, sure, it sucks that happened, but don't list bullshit or obvious shit into the equation to try to get more supporters just because you got unlucky.

What is he talking about "No Religion" anyway? Chinese people do have religion.


Religion is illegal in China, you are not allowed to bring bibles into the country, it's fine for Chinese people not in China of course. :P I for one am pro that because religion has brought nothing but trouble even in past Chinese history, it's a stupid thing when there was already confucius who did it and did it better without using religion as a backup. The problem is men's greed knows no bounds.