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Forums - Sony Discussion - Full PlayStation 4 specifications

ninjablade on 20 February 2013
HappySqurriel said:
ninjablade said:
Honestly, the Wii U struggling at $350 is a very bad sign for any console selling for (significantly) more than $350


or it could be people are not interested, just like they were not interested in GC or N64, but especially like GC, i mean it did'nt even sell  at 149$ 6 months after launch.


I think that is a factor but I think that people are forgetting that the XBox 360 struggled at $400 in 2005 and 2006 even though the economy was far stronger ...

In relative terms, I think you have to (essentially) add $50 to $100 to the price of a system launching today to relate it back to the launch of previous generation systems simply due to the state of the economy; and I think a $500 console is less appealing today than a $600 console was in 2006.


360 wasn't really a big brand when it launched, and it basically missed the holiday shopping season, cause was supply constraint, so its really diifernt scenerio, but i do think 399$-449$ should be the price,



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drkohler on 20 February 2013
goddog said:


which is why i am concerned. granted there is a level of focus that can be granted if it is a console vs a PC.  I do also see more builders customizing due to  use of x86 and support from AMD to push this core design ... but again its not 8 real cores its 4 moduels  ... unless its 8 moduels and 16 "cores" 

AMD just revealed die shots of their quad-core Jaguar CPUs. There are true four cores in the chip, not modules with shared fpus etc. XBox/PS4 use two of those chips with glue logic to get to eight cores.

As to hardware, we don't know the whole story by a mile. If you watched the show closely, you would have noticed two things:

1. There is an additional processor/additional silicon doing the "Download while playing" thingie (might also be used in pirating prevention stuff).

2. There is an additional processor/additional silicon doing the compressing/decompressing of video/audio streams (probably a Gaikai speedup thing)

So like in the WiiU, there is additional hardware to relieve cpu/gpu from "ordinary work".



HappySqurriel on 20 February 2013
ninjablade said:
HappySqurriel said:
ninjablade said:
Honestly, the Wii U struggling at $350 is a very bad sign for any console selling for (significantly) more than $350


or it could be people are not interested, just like they were not interested in GC or N64, but especially like GC, i mean it did'nt even sell  at 149$ 6 months after launch.


I think that is a factor but I think that people are forgetting that the XBox 360 struggled at $400 in 2005 and 2006 even though the economy was far stronger ...

In relative terms, I think you have to (essentially) add $50 to $100 to the price of a system launching today to relate it back to the launch of previous generation systems simply due to the state of the economy; and I think a $500 console is less appealing today than a $600 console was in 2006.


360 wasn't really a big brand when it launched, and it basically missed the holiday shopping season, cause was supply constraint, so its really diifernt scenerio, but i do think 399$-449$ should be the price,


Even the PS3, the successor to the best selling gaming console ever, struggled at $400 ...

I think the market wants to pay $300 for a console, they might accept $400 if it is an amazing system, but beyond that is a mistake. I honestly think the Wii U would be substantially more popular at $250, I think the PS4 will sell worse than the PS3 if it is $500 or more, and I think Sony would be better off having a more modest system selling for  $300 than a powerful system at $450.



goddog on 20 February 2013
Shinobi-san said:
goddog said:
Shinobi-san said:
goddog said:
its an odd mishmash of high end on the ram, upper mid range on the gpu, and lower midrange on the cpu ...

using the gddr5 will help hide issues in the cpu but i still feel twoards the end of its life the "eight core" (4 module ) will actually limit what the gpu can do. it will be an interesting switch form this gen where the ram and then gpus were the choke points. and due to the design of the cores, if a game is not programed to take advantage of how the 4 modules operate they could actually slow down the performance below that of a quad core as has been shown on ars in the past.

it will be interesting to see where they take this, at least programming support will be easier... though if they had used intel could have been much easier ....

stupid fake 8 cores .... but then all about arguing what makes a core....


so i guess in summary the ram is a neat choice, the gpu is not as high end as i hopped but not a POS and since its custom may have trick up its sleave
and the cpu leaves a lot to be desired (are we 100% on its clock speed yet)


WOW.

This kinda post is the perfect example of spreading the wrong information, yet making as if what you are saying is true.

 

whats wrong there? the 8 amd cores are 4 modules with some share resources i would suggest reading arstechnica or tomshardware for a good write up on the family. 

as far as i have seen no clock speed has been released officially thats why i asked

i consider the area around 7850-7870  pitcarin  to be upper mid current gpu 

the family of the gpu is only given as GCN and runs at 1.8, per wikipedia they 7850 runs at 1.791 TFLOPS  and the 7870 ghz runs at 2.5 Tflops

and i expressed i was pleasantly surprised  at the ram 

 

where do you get 4 modules from?

Last i checked Jaguar cores are based off of the Bobcat cores. Bobcat cores have a different architecture compared to Bulldozer cores. 8 jaguar cores means exactly that.....8 jaguar cores. This is not 8 bulldozer cores / 4 modules (which would have been more powerfull anyways) where each core shares resources between two cores.

Will adress the rest of your post later.

. hmm looking into  you are right it is in the bobcat/brazos line , I thought it was a desendant of  Trinity so it get 8 full cores i stand corrected. it will be interesting to see the IPC of the new core when it comes out at retail to APUS... i have something new to look fwd to on deskside i had not been aware of this year. i will say the family voltage is pretty low 18 watts and below, and it was amied at ultrabooks/tablets which is interesting 

Jaguar

  • Jaguar will be the successor to Brazos 2.0.
  • The new core design will add support for SSE4.1, SSE4.2, AES, PCLMUL, AVX, BMI, F16C, and MOVBE instruction sets[46]
  • Memory address space is increased from 36 bits to 40 bits.
  • The FPU-unit is considerably more powerful.
  • Core size of 3.1 square millimeters, down from 4.9 square millimeters.
[edit] 



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ninjablade on 20 February 2013
HappySqurriel said:
ninjablade said:
HappySqurriel said:
ninjablade said:
Honestly, the Wii U struggling at $350 is a very bad sign for any console selling for (significantly) more than $350


or it could be people are not interested, just like they were not interested in GC or N64, but especially like GC, i mean it did'nt even sell  at 149$ 6 months after launch.


I think that is a factor but I think that people are forgetting that the XBox 360 struggled at $400 in 2005 and 2006 even though the economy was far stronger ...

In relative terms, I think you have to (essentially) add $50 to $100 to the price of a system launching today to relate it back to the launch of previous generation systems simply due to the state of the economy; and I think a $500 console is less appealing today than a $600 console was in 2006.


360 wasn't really a big brand when it launched, and it basically missed the holiday shopping season, cause was supply constraint, so its really diifernt scenerio, but i do think 399$-449$ should be the price,


Even the PS3, the successor to the best selling gaming console ever, struggled at $400 ...

I think the market wants to pay $300 for a console, they might accept $400 if it is an amazing system, but beyond that is a mistake. I honestly think the Wii U would be substantially more popular at $250, I think the PS4 will sell worse than the PS3 if it is $500 or more, and I think Sony would be better off having a more modest system selling for  $300 than a powerful system at $450.


ps3 was 499$ and 599$, it had the 360 at 299$-399$ with better looking games, thats what really hurt ps3 and when it all said and done ps3 will hit 90 million, not bad.



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ethomaz on 20 February 2013

I found that in gaf... good GPU analyst.

I don't think its right to compare it to pc gpus. First of all, I expect the architecture to be based on AMD's next generation of gpus. Secondly, developers will be coding "to the metal" as they say, which is something that is not possible on pcs. You have no idea how many custom features are present in AMD's current line of gpus but can't be used as they are not exposed under dx11. Thirdly, this is an APU SoC design, which enables faster communication between the components in the system and the advantages will also be exposed to devs. Last but not the least, developers will have access to 8gb of RAM, even if some of it is reserved for the system/OS, let's say 2gb, devs will still have at least 6gb of RAM to target, which, as far as I know, you can only get with the newly released Nvidia Titan.

This shit will do things than today high-end PC can't do for sure... of couse after the release the PC catch and surpass the PS4.



Zappykins on 20 February 2013
Carl2291 said:
So how does this compare to PS3, 360 and Wii U?


Graphics wise looks at least 7-8 times more powerful than a X360.

And yes, you would notice that.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!
HappySqurriel on 21 February 2013
ninjablade said:


ps3 was 499$ and 599$, it had the 360 at 299$-399$ with better looking games, thats what really hurt ps3 and when it all said and done ps3 will hit 90 million, not bad.

40% marketshare loss, losses measured in the billions of dollars, and a massive marketshare boost to their main competitors ...

The vast majority of all console sales in the previous generation was for systems that were less than $300, including the majority of PS3 systems sold. It would be foolish to look at the outcome from the previous generation as being supportive of selling a system for more than $400; and I would say that it would indicate that you should be launching your system as close to $300 as possible.

Ultimately, I don't know what Sony will sell the PS4 for but my original point was that they may have (once again) over-engineered a system and need to sell it for a price beyond what the market really supports; and if they do this it will be a huge mistake.



SvennoJ on 21 February 2013
joeorc said:
VetteDude said:
Blu Ray confirmed?

BD 6xCAV 

yes it is, since its CAV it will be much cheaper than a CLV option the PS3 used. so good in one case but not good as another CLV would of course be better. but still this is not a bad optical drive. 6x speed and transfer speed. will be fast enough.

Actually CAV is much better for gaming. The current ps3 load times are hampered by the CLV drive because seek times are much longer. The spin speed of the disc has to change when seeking on CLV drives.

The read speed varies, 6x CAV would be between 90mbps at the inner edge to 216mbps at the outer edge.
Or minimum 125% faster then the current 2x CLV ps3 drive, but seek times are far smaller.

Pretty much confirms that the first model of the ps4 is not going to support 4K blu-ray. That would need a 6x CLV drive that can read 8 layer (200gb) discs at least.



goddog on 21 February 2013
drkohler said:
goddog said:


which is why i am concerned. granted there is a level of focus that can be granted if it is a console vs a PC.  I do also see more builders customizing due to  use of x86 and support from AMD to push this core design ... but again its not 8 real cores its 4 moduels  ... unless its 8 moduels and 16 "cores" 

AMD just revealed die shots of their quad-core Jaguar CPUs. There are true four cores in the chip, not modules with shared fpus etc. XBox/PS4 use two of those chips with glue logic to get to eight cores.

As to hardware, we don't know the whole story by a mile. If you watched the show closely, you would have noticed two things:

1. There is an additional processor/additional silicon doing the "Download while playing" thingie (might also be used in pirating prevention stuff).

2. There is an additional processor/additional silicon doing the compressing/decompressing of video/audio streams (probably a Gaikai speedup thing)

So like in the WiiU, there is additional hardware to relieve cpu/gpu from "ordinary work".

already working on correcting myself i misunderstood the core linage I thought it was a descendant of  Trinity line, not bobcat/brazos line , looking into the IPC and performance of brazos to my knowledge no 8 cores exist in its line so it would be hard to estimate (i am really interested to see the effects of gddr5 on a cpu) …. where as the gpu we can get a pretty good idea 



come play minecraft @  mcg.hansrotech.com

minecraft name: hansrotec

XBL name: Goddog