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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Destructoid Blog: "Is Wii U's Touch Screen Controller a Red Herring Hiding a Deeper Strategy?"

DanneSandin said:
Sorry for the delay, had to google "natalie portman closer" ^^ damn she's fiiiine!

Anywho, first off; THQ. They didn't fail simply because of higher developing costs, afaik. What I can gather the uDraw for PS360 cost them a shit ton of money, making that particular argument useless.

Secondly, I think PS720 will share quite a few ports among them, which Wii U might get some of - and likely gimped down versions at that.

Right now there is nothing compelling consumers to buy the Wii U, and this probably won't change. The future is indeed looking bleak right now, and that blogpost is simply wishful thinking. The thing is, lower specs forces developers to be creative with the hardware - as he points out. Just look at Mario Galaxy and Skyward Sword - excellent examples of that. But, this is nothing 3rd party will use a lot of since they won't be developing a whole lotta games for Wii U, mostly porting them I'd guess. This means that no one but Nintendo themselves, and maybe a handful of others, will get creative with Wii U.

I agree that as of now there isn't much to draw in consumers. But I disagree that it won't change.

The blog post IS wishful thinking, but the future in no way looks bleak. If it looks bleak for Nintendo, it looks bleak for everyone.

Finally, your last sentence is, sadly, spot on. You'd think video game creators would appreciate the ability to create new game experiences, but more often than not they zero in on the lowest common denominator.



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What you said was guy's name, Spin Dude?



Veknoid_Outcast said:
DanneSandin said:
Sorry for the delay, had to google "natalie portman closer" ^^ damn she's fiiiine!

Anywho, first off; THQ. They didn't fail simply because of higher developing costs, afaik. What I can gather the uDraw for PS360 cost them a shit ton of money, making that particular argument useless.

Secondly, I think PS720 will share quite a few ports among them, which Wii U might get some of - and likely gimped down versions at that.

Right now there is nothing compelling consumers to buy the Wii U, and this probably won't change. The future is indeed looking bleak right now, and that blogpost is simply wishful thinking. The thing is, lower specs forces developers to be creative with the hardware - as he points out. Just look at Mario Galaxy and Skyward Sword - excellent examples of that. But, this is nothing 3rd party will use a lot of since they won't be developing a whole lotta games for Wii U, mostly porting them I'd guess. This means that no one but Nintendo themselves, and maybe a handful of others, will get creative with Wii U.

I agree that as of now there isn't much to draw in consumers. But I disagree that it won't change.

The blog post IS wishful thinking, but the future in no way looks bleak. If it looks bleak for Nintendo, it looks bleak for everyone.

Finally, your last sentence is, sadly, spot on. You'd think video game creators would appreciate the ability to create new game experiences, but more often than not they zero in on the lowest common denominator.

Yeah, it seems as if they've gotten lazy! That's not to say that they don't still innovate or make great games, but it would seem that developers are very hesitant to try out new things with the hardware. But that goes for the hardcore gamers as well; hesitent to try new things...



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

I don't doubt it was Nintendo's intent, but it's not a strategy that will work. It didn't work with Wii--a system that exploded out the gates--so why would it work with Wii U, a system that is struggling out the door?

What's more, the Western publisher most supportive of Wii U, Ubisoft, just went and delayed the finished Rayman Legends. While some people would argue it makes business sense, Ubisoft have undone all the goodwill they'd previously generated on Wii U by delaying a badly needed finished title. Is it really risky to launch a high quality game in a barren release schedule to a couple of million consumers who need new games for their system? Is it risky at all, when you consider the engine and assets for the game were made for Origins, helping to minimise the costs of development?

What's more, Ubisoft's chosen release month will see one of the biggest multi-format titles of the year (GTA V) come out. If the most positive Western third party partner Nintendo have is willing to treat Nintendo's consumers like second-class citizens, depriving them of a finished timed exclusive, only to have their game go up against a huge release like GTA V, what does that tell you about Nintendo's strategy?

It's a poor one. Third parties will treat Nintendo with far more skepticism than they will ever apply to Microsoft and Sony. Nintendo needed to remember the expanded audience that made DS and Wii such huge hits, and to remember that the major Western publishers never committed to those systems on a consistent basis. Nintendo needed to remember that the second 3DS looked shaky, developers cancelled and delayed projects for the system. Nintendo needed to remember that launching without a consistent schedule of first party content in line for 3DS badly hampered the system. Nintendo have not learnt the lessons of recent years, and Wii U is struggling as a result. The system won't ruin Nintendo, but it is pushing them back to the brink of irrelevancy Wii helped Nintendo recover from. If that happens, Nintendo will need another revolution, and that's far easier said than done.



RolStoppable said:
By the point third parties might realize that they need to sell more games, the Wii U will most likely be dead in the water already due to a lack of third party support. This will not result in any sort of measures that benefit Nintendo, but rather efforts to milk the consumers on Sony and Microsoft consoles even more.

Nintendo didn't need third parties to keep their head above water in the 5th and 6th generations. Even EA admits that you should never count Nintendo out, because of the strength of their first-party software.

Meanwhile, all Nintendo really needs to do is win over a few of the third parties. You know, like Atlus, Square Enix, Capcom, Warner Bros.

And along the way, they need to win over some of the developers, too. You know, like Michel Ancel.

(that's him on the left, supporting the fans' call for Rayman Legends to be released immediately on the Wii U)

I have high hopes because of this.



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I'm not convinced. Basically the problem the author disregards is, that the game-devs cannot simply make a cheaper game by outputting less visuals and/or less content. That only will result in poor sales, because people will feel cheated. So the dev-costs have to increase until a crash or a an innovation. That does not help the WiiU in the slightest.



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RolStoppable said:
Sure, but the N64 and GC eras weren't exactly rosy times for Nintendo. The main problem is that, despite the Wii, Nintendo subscribed to the myth that every console needs third party games to succeed. In reality, all it takes is a steady flow of good games. Whether they are first or third party games doesn't matter. Instead of expanding their own workforce during the last few years, Nintendo chose to appease the industry, so now Nintendo is once again left with software droughts, because third parties don't want to get on board. The Wii didn't get ports of 360/PS3 games due to its lack of power and controller? Well, the Wii U fixed those issues, so the goalposts were moved by third parties.

EA is the prime example of this. The quote you mentioned led straight into a backhanded compliment. EA basically said: "You should never count Nintendo out, but that's exactly what we'll do, so don't expect our games to come to the Wii U."

The goalposts were moved by third parties... but not by all of them. That's the point - Nintendo just needs to get some more third party support from a few, and then the visible difference between them in terms of profits, etc, will become the selling point. Nintendo has gotten on board, amongst others, Team Ninja (yes, NG3 is being ported back to the PS3 and 360, but Team Ninja are also going to add all new content back into the Wii U version via an update), Atlus, some of Square Enix (see: Dragon Quest), some of Capcom (see: Monster Hunter), and at least some developers within Ubisoft (see: Michel Ancel).

It's a start. And as for EA, the point is that, even in saying they weren't really supporting the platform, they felt they needed to emphasise that you should never count Nintendo out. It's basically them hedging their bets by saying "If the Wii U starts to sell better, we'll support it".



Aielyn said:
RolStoppable said:
Sure, but the N64 and GC eras weren't exactly rosy times for Nintendo. The main problem is that, despite the Wii, Nintendo subscribed to the myth that every console needs third party games to succeed. In reality, all it takes is a steady flow of good games. Whether they are first or third party games doesn't matter. Instead of expanding their own workforce during the last few years, Nintendo chose to appease the industry, so now Nintendo is once again left with software droughts, because third parties don't want to get on board. The Wii didn't get ports of 360/PS3 games due to its lack of power and controller? Well, the Wii U fixed those issues, so the goalposts were moved by third parties.

EA is the prime example of this. The quote you mentioned led straight into a backhanded compliment. EA basically said: "You should never count Nintendo out, but that's exactly what we'll do, so don't expect our games to come to the Wii U."

The goalposts were moved by third parties... but not by all of them. That's the point - Nintendo just needs to get some more third party support from a few, and then the visible difference between them in terms of profits, etc, will become the selling point. Nintendo has gotten on board, amongst others, Team Ninja (yes, NG3 is being ported back to the PS3 and 360, but Team Ninja are also going to add all new content back into the Wii U version via an update), Atlus, some of Square Enix (see: Dragon Quest), some of Capcom (see: Monster Hunter), and at least some developers within Ubisoft (see: Michel Ancel).

It's a start. And as for EA, the point is that, even in saying they weren't really supporting the platform, they felt they needed to emphasise that you should never count Nintendo out. It's basically them hedging their bets by saying "If the Wii U starts to sell better, we'll support it".

I don't think EA will ever support the WiiU, and that's because they have a long term strategy too. I don't belive they don't know development costs will rise next-gen, on the contrary it's part of their strategy. Since they can count on strong franchises to use as cash cows (FIFA and Need For Speed for example), they can and want to set the bar for game development higher in order to push smaller competitors (THQ for example) out of business.

At the same time, by acquiring more and more key studios and IPs, they will gain also bargaining power to console makers. You know for sure there are rumors about anti used measures in Ps4 and Nextbox. I guess they are the ones pulling the wires behind this, I don't think Sony or Microsoft would like to add a feature that could potentially restrain hardware sales.



Complete puerile drivel from another wanna-be economist/deep -thinker.

I skipped most of it as I'd like to keep my IQ, and blood pressure, in check, but here are some of the glaringly obvious imbecilic comments:


1) "By this point I'm pretty sure we're all familiar with the fact that almost every past gen of consoles the winner has turned out to be the most technically underpowered system in the race"

On that comment alone the guy should be banned from the internet. First of all how is he measuring success? Please don't tell me it's via the thoughtless "WELL ITZ SOLDZ DUR MOST! ITZ WINAR!" What a complete moron. He obviously has no idea about how business works because success is far more complex than that. For example, success may just be establishing a creditable foothold in the market (xbox), or making sure you have a monopoly on the next-generations preferred optical media (PS3). However, it most likely is just about spinning a profit in which case all the consoles have succeeded in doing. To pit the consoles against one another is completely arbitrary and wholly juvenile.

So first point is, this kid clearly hasn't the slightest clue about business, yet here he is talking about the potential business plans Nintendo have...


2) "it's those very technical constraints (or rather the embracing of the constraints) that actually encourage interesting game development"

10/10 for going full retard right there. Do you know what encourages interesting game development? Devs who have a vision and aren't hindered by publishers. Power only comes into it when it is limiting game development. Otherwise why is Flower and Journey, two of the most innovative games this generation, on the PS3 and not the Wii? Why was Limbo not made for the SNES?

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen/ 02:46 on frontpage video
"None of this would have been possible two years ago, but with Moore's Law driving PC performance and cost[...]"

So we have proof that innovation and game development can actually occur directly as a result of giving game developers MORE power.


3) Congratulations. You found fog. It turned out to work in their favour. That doesn't mean lack of power will drive innovation, just in the same way that power doesn't drives it - it's down to how good the devs are.


4) "Given the specs presented earlier one can only imagine how much will budgets rise in the 8th generation of consoles, and it doesn't take much thinking to realize how this could go horribly wrong."

I'm guessing dearest author isn't employed within a big company, otherwise he would of heard of this thing called a "workflow". Considering with new generations come new iterations of game engines, these engines all provide tool sets to make games within. Each generation these toolsets are getting easier and easier to use, in order to maximise the efficiency of the workflow, and we have an added bonus that there are now two major engines fighting it out - Unreal and CryEngine - therefore it's safe to presume that both will attempt to be easier than the other to use as that's a nice selling point.
In short prettier games don't necessarily have to cost more. Plus he completely forgot to mention crowd-funding and accessibility to use hardware. So far devs have mentioned the joy of programming for the PS4 while criticising the Wii U due to having to adapt for the low CPU clock speed.


5) "The key here lies in the controller becoming a red herring that blinds rivals (and pretty much everyone) to the rest of advantages on the Wii U's corner"

Where can I buy my own tinfoil hat? Was the 20% reduction in estimated shipped units also part of Nintendo's strategy?


6)"Better specs than 7th gen consoles but not enough to require much bigger budgets: "

And probably not enough of a leap in specs to lure people into buying a console which is just slightly better than theirs...

That's as far as I got. The guy is completely insane, ill-informed, uneducated and trying to warp shit sales figures into "it'll make a comeback - this is all planned"! Someone grab him a straitjacket.

The sad thing is the amount of people who have been suckered into the inane ramblings of a madman. It's because of blogs like this that makes me think we need to enforce a license system in order to publish your opinion on the internet. 



I believe Nintendo already hinted a little bit about their strategy in localizing more Japanese games. Nintendo has made great strides in garnering 3rd party support in Japan and now the they need to increase their localization efforts to keep a steady stream of games here in the west. Western multiplats are generally nothing worthwhile and the big franchises usually make their way to Nintendo in one form or another