By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - A supreme irony, but some would say they had it coming.

Trunkin said:
DanneSandin said:
I don't think we'll see the extinction of Christianity very soon - if ever. They'll survive as some odd cult at the very least. But if we're looking at what Christianity has become, none is true Christians any more. I mean, how many people are stoning gays? Or selling their daughters as slaves? Not a whole lot of them. So I'd call todays Christians for... Post-modern Christians; they have adopted a much more modern way of looking at things, or THEY would be the ones getting stoned...

But I'm glad to live in a world where more and more people are becoming Atheists - in no way can that be a bad sign of things to come. I just wish we'd see more of this also happening in the Middle East...


You're joking, right?

If you're referring to the bolded part; no, I'm not. I wouldn't call Christians of today for "real, hardcore" Christians. They've cherry picked what they want to believe from the Bible - but that goes for almost ALL religion; they've chosen by large what they want to adhere to, and what to ignore. The Bible clearly states that you have the right to sell your daughter as a slave, and not even the most fundamental Creationist would do that (I hope).

Religion these days are all about cherry picking the good parts - as well as they should; there are some pretty horrible things in most religious texts.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

Around the Network

Your OP is ironic, because Christianity was a grassroots religion. LOL!

Other than that, it's quite possible, and Christianity has always better flourished in grassroots rather than organized, structured religion.

With the current social trends, I can't see this _not_ happening.



It's hard to discern true atheists from the "phase" atheists. I've known so many people who claimed to be atheist, but at the birth of their first child, found God. This has lead me to only count the truth atheist base as those who remain atheist after becoming a parent, or those who never have children, as their viewpoints will stay the same.

Teenagers and people in their 20s being atheist is as trendy as people the same age smoking weed. It tend to be used more as a "rebel and resist" mindset than a base for stance on faith and the supernatural amongst this age range.



The Carnival of Shadows - Folk Punk from Asbury Park, New Jersey

http://www.thecarnivalofshadows.com 


Dodece said:
@badgenome

No it would be ironic, because they would have fallen victim to a evolutionary process. Which is something that a great many of them don't believe actually happens.

Funny, because I thought creationists denied biological evolution, not memetic evolution. So, still unironic.

Dodece said:
Look I am just asking how do you think people would react if they found themselves in that predicament. Which is something that actually happens a lot in this world. People lose their communities all of the time through wars, disasters, economic recessions, and persecution. All I want to know is how you think people would cope with the situation if it happens. How do you think they will feel. Will they become less fervent, lose their faith entirely, or will they react negatively to the world and other people.

What happens in such a scenario depends very much on the particulars. Does this all happen in a vacuum? Do things continue just as they are, with the same standard of living and the same level of civil rights as we have now? Persecution has tended to make communities more compact and thus closer-knit. See: the Jews, or black Americans prior to civil rights. Remove that persecution, and the community will fracture. So as the religious become the minority, do the irreligious - particularly the intolerant anti-religious who can scarcely conceal their contempt already - attempt to use their political power to persecute them? Rather than destroy them, this will only strengthen their faith and resolve accordingly.

The decrease in religiosity has been inextricably tied to the increasing standard of living. However, irreligiosity and a high standard of living also correlate to a lower birth rate. Western nations who have loads of jobs that "no one wants to do" and thus resort to importing third world laborers are also importing people who are more religious than themselves, who have more children than themselves, and as this trend will continue until there is an economic reason for it to stop, it's hard to see religion ever disappearing.

Then, what if there is an economic collapse and it's no longer so desirable to immigrate to the West (not likely, since poorer countries tend to be harder hit in a downturn) or people simply will no longer tolerate foreigners "taking their jobs"? So there are no more religious immigrants coming. But in times of personal hardship, people have a tendency to turn to religion (e.g., prison converts). A severe economic downturn increases personal hardship on a massive scale, and so would likely see people becoming more religious rather than less.

Apathy and contentedness is religion's worst enemy, so if somehow everything kept trucking along nicely and nothing really bad happened and the present demographics were frozen in time, then the trend may continue and you might see a very sharp decline in religious belief over the course of our lives, though still never an absolute extinction. But this is, needless to say, highly unlikely.



DanneSandin said:
Trunkin said:
DanneSandin said:
I don't think we'll see the extinction of Christianity very soon - if ever. They'll survive as some odd cult at the very least. But if we're looking at what Christianity has become, none is true Christians any more. I mean, how many people are stoning gays? Or selling their daughters as slaves? Not a whole lot of them. So I'd call todays Christians for... Post-modern Christians; they have adopted a much more modern way of looking at things, or THEY would be the ones getting stoned...

But I'm glad to live in a world where more and more people are becoming Atheists - in no way can that be a bad sign of things to come. I just wish we'd see more of this also happening in the Middle East...


You're joking, right?

If you're referring to the bolded part; no, I'm not. I wouldn't call Christians of today for "real, hardcore" Christians. They've cherry picked what they want to believe from the Bible - but that goes for almost ALL religion; they've chosen by large what they want to adhere to, and what to ignore. The Bible clearly states that you have the right to sell your daughter as a slave, and not even the most fundamental Creationist would do that (I hope).

Religion these days are all about cherry picking the good parts - as well as they should; there are some pretty horrible things in most religious texts.

I find it flabbergasting that you can say that "true" Christians would be all for stoning gays and "selling their daughters" when Christ, the founder of the faith and a man the Bible says was perfect, was openly opposed such actions, preventing the stoning of an adulterous woman, and teaching to do unto others as you'd have them to unto you, which pretty much rules out slavery. The way I see it, discarding the barbaric ways of the Old Testament isn't a matter of "cherry picking", It's a matter of following the teachings of Jesus above those in the Old Testament, which Christ was supposed to have abolished through his death on the cross. There's nothing "modern" about it. 



Around the Network
badgenome said:
Dodece said:
@badgenome

No it would be ironic, because they would have fallen victim to a evolutionary process. Which is something that a great many of them don't believe actually happens.

Funny, because I thought creationists denied biological evolution, not memetic evolution. So, still unironic.

Dodece said:
Look I am just asking how do you think people would react if they found themselves in that predicament. Which is something that actually happens a lot in this world. People lose their communities all of the time through wars, disasters, economic recessions, and persecution. All I want to know is how you think people would cope with the situation if it happens. How do you think they will feel. Will they become less fervent, lose their faith entirely, or will they react negatively to the world and other people.

What happens in such a scenario depends very much on the particulars. Does this all happen in a vacuum? Do things continue just as they are, with the same standard of living and the same level of civil rights as we have now? Persecution has tended to make communities more compact and thus closer-knit. See: the Jews, or black Americans prior to civil rights. Remove that persecution, and the community will fracture. So as the religious become the minority, do the irreligious - particularly the intolerant anti-religious who can scarcely conceal their contempt already - attempt to use their political power to persecute them? Rather than destroy them, this will only strengthen their faith and resolve accordingly.

The decrease in religiosity has been inextricably tied to the increasing standard of living. However, irreligiosity and a high standard of living also correlate to a lower birth rate. Western nations who have loads of jobs that "no one wants to do" and thus resort to importing third world laborers are also importing people who are more religious than themselves, who have more children than themselves, and as this trend will continue until there is an economic reason for it to stop, it's hard to see religion ever disappearing.

Then, what if there is an economic collapse and it's no longer so desirable to immigrate to the West (not likely, since poorer countries tend to be harder hit in a downturn) or people simply will no longer tolerate foreigners "taking their jobs"? So there are no more religious immigrants coming. But in times of personal hardship, people have a tendency to turn to religion (e.g., prison converts). A severe economic downturn increases personal hardship on a massive scale, and so would likely see people becoming more religious rather than less.

Apathy and contentedness is religion's worst enemy, so if somehow everything kept trucking along nicely and nothing really bad happened and the present demographics were frozen in time, then the trend may continue and you might see a very sharp decline in religious belief over the course of our lives, though still never an absolute extinction. But this is, needless to say, highly unlikely.

All very very well said.



Trunkin said:
DanneSandin said:
Trunkin said:
DanneSandin said:
I don't think we'll see the extinction of Christianity very soon - if ever. They'll survive as some odd cult at the very least. But if we're looking at what Christianity has become, none is true Christians any more. I mean, how many people are stoning gays? Or selling their daughters as slaves? Not a whole lot of them. So I'd call todays Christians for... Post-modern Christians; they have adopted a much more modern way of looking at things, or THEY would be the ones getting stoned...

But I'm glad to live in a world where more and more people are becoming Atheists - in no way can that be a bad sign of things to come. I just wish we'd see more of this also happening in the Middle East...


You're joking, right?

If you're referring to the bolded part; no, I'm not. I wouldn't call Christians of today for "real, hardcore" Christians. They've cherry picked what they want to believe from the Bible - but that goes for almost ALL religion; they've chosen by large what they want to adhere to, and what to ignore. The Bible clearly states that you have the right to sell your daughter as a slave, and not even the most fundamental Creationist would do that (I hope).

Religion these days are all about cherry picking the good parts - as well as they should; there are some pretty horrible things in most religious texts.

I find it flabbergasting that you can say that "true" Christians would be all for stoning gays and "selling their daughters" when Christ, the founder of the faith and a man the Bible says was perfect, was openly opposed such actions, preventing the stoning of an adulterous woman, and teaching to do unto others as you'd have them to unto you, which pretty much rules out slavery. The way I see it, discarding the barbaric ways of the Old Testament isn't a matter of "cherry picking", It's a matter of following the teachings of Jesus above those in the Old Testament, which Christ was supposed to have abolished through his death on the cross. There's nothing "modern" about it. 

Yes, ok, I'll give you that you probably can discard the whole of the Old Testament if you're following the preaching of Jesus. But that would mean you more or less would have to discard everything in it, no? Like how god created the world in 7 days, and the story about Adam and Eve... But that's not what's happening, since people still believe this is what happened. And then we have the homophobic right winged movement in the US that opposes abortion and gay marriages because it says so in the bible. What they are doing is disregarding the word of Jesus and is, in fact, cherry picking...

And then we have the fact that the New Testament have been heavily revised through out history, so what we have today is nothing like what Jesus was preaching... Cherry picking.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

DanneSandin said:

Yes, ok, I'll give you that you probably can discard the whole of the Old Testament if you're following the preaching of Jesus. But that would mean you more or less would have to discard everything in it, no? Like how god created the world in 7 days, and the story about Adam and Eve... But that's not what's happening, since people still believe this is what happened. And then we have the homophobic right winged movement in the US that opposes abortion and gay marriages because it says so in the bible. What they are doing is disregarding the word of Jesus and is, in fact, cherry picking...

And then we have the fact that the New Testament have been heavily revised through out history, so what we have today is nothing like what Jesus was preaching... Cherry picking.

Would you want Christians to not "cherry-pick"? I can't disagree with you that some do that, but it's a good thing they do, no?



i reefer to the creator. nothing more. how could you go wrong with that!



NintendoPie said:
DanneSandin said:

Yes, ok, I'll give you that you probably can discard the whole of the Old Testament if you're following the preaching of Jesus. But that would mean you more or less would have to discard everything in it, no? Like how god created the world in 7 days, and the story about Adam and Eve... But that's not what's happening, since people still believe this is what happened. And then we have the homophobic right winged movement in the US that opposes abortion and gay marriages because it says so in the bible. What they are doing is disregarding the word of Jesus and is, in fact, cherry picking...

And then we have the fact that the New Testament have been heavily revised through out history, so what we have today is nothing like what Jesus was preaching... Cherry picking.

Would you want Christians to not "cherry-pick"? I can't disagree with you that some do that, but it's a good thing they do, no?

It is a good thing imo. Or else they'd think that genocide would be ok, as long as they have god on their side. And that's a damn dangerous view of the world. But that also doesn't make them "true" Christians in my eyes, but a watered down version. And that's not a bad thing!



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.