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Forums - General - A supreme irony, but some would say they had it coming.

happydolphin said:
Raze said:

Apparently not, as I've been guided to great things, all without the influence or corruption of man, and have been delivered unto those who needed a helping hand or encouragement in dark times. God is my counsel, dare you say that He has guided me wrong?

This is why I like discussing faith matters with atheists better than those who feel they have authority to preach. At least Atheists ask some interesting questions. Prechers and their ilk only know how to condemn, and as per Christ, those who comdemn are themselves condemned.

Lol, you just condemned me you hypocrite.

Anyways, the point of what I was saying was that you said you go to the source, but after showing you those two verses you clearly don't.

I don't need to be christian to tell you the cold hard truth. Sorry you can't take it.

Edit: You want the truth? I don't even practice those two verses. But I don't pretend to have my religion in place, I know I have things to fix. You can say you're working on things, but don't pretend that being a lone wolf is the biblical path to take, because it's not.

Not a hypocrite, just quoting the passage, I could care less as to the path you take, that's your decision, granted by the free will bestowed upon you.

As for the source, the source is the living God, not the bible, due to corruption via translation, which is a long conversation for a different thread.

Your truth is just your view on the matter, it's like saying "OMG XBOX 360 is the best ever. FACT!" The truth is, there is no truth, just points of view.

And as said, you speak from the point of mankind, so you telling me that my path is the wrong one is just seen as empty words of man, you don't have the answers for anyone but yourself. As I said, your path is your path, how you travel it and get to your destination is up to you alone, and not I, nor any other human, has the right or knowledge to say that your path is wrong.  Thus, the inverse holds true too.

I do find it ironic, the overall mentality of "one way" in a world where we create things that solve problems and perform tasks using different methods. We're all designed so dramatically differently, that there is no possible way that everyone can follow one way to the destination.



The Carnival of Shadows - Folk Punk from Asbury Park, New Jersey

http://www.thecarnivalofshadows.com 


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Raze said:

Not a hypocrite, just quoting the passage, I could care less as to the path you take, that's your decision, granted by the free will bestowed upon you.

As for the source, the source is the living God, not the bible, due to corruption via translation, which is a long conversation for a different thread.

Your truth is just your view on the matter, it's like saying "OMG XBOX 360 is the best ever. FACT!" The truth is, there is no truth, just points of view.

And as said, you speak from the point of mankind, so you telling me that my path is the wrong one is just seen as empty words of man, you don't have the answers for anyone but yourself. As I said, your path is your path, how you travel it and get to your destination is up to you alone, and not I, nor any other human, has the right or knowledge to say that your path is wrong.  Thus, the inverse holds true too.

I do find it ironic, the overall mentality of "one way" in a world where we create things that solve problems and perform tasks using different methods. We're all designed so dramatically differently, that there is no possible way that everyone can follow one way to the destination.

I understood source to mean the bible. If you didn't, then I was horribly wrong. Having said that, you're not technically a christian if you're only following the ideas that please you. The bible's there for a reason, it's in christian doctrine considered words inspired by the spirit of God. Timothy 3:16

Having said that, I'll say I personally am not reading it either, but I have my reasons to (I can't handle it, lol).

But honestly I find your path a bit disingenuous. It's your path so I appreciate it as your personal path, but to be fully honest if you were really interested in the bible you'd learn latin and ancient greek or at least try to see how you could overcome the "translation errors".

But whatever, good luck my friend I don't condemn you, but I do strongly disagree with you, if that's ok.



happydolphin said:
Raze said:

Not a hypocrite, just quoting the passage, I could care less as to the path you take, that's your decision, granted by the free will bestowed upon you.

As for the source, the source is the living God, not the bible, due to corruption via translation, which is a long conversation for a different thread.

Your truth is just your view on the matter, it's like saying "OMG XBOX 360 is the best ever. FACT!" The truth is, there is no truth, just points of view.

And as said, you speak from the point of mankind, so you telling me that my path is the wrong one is just seen as empty words of man, you don't have the answers for anyone but yourself. As I said, your path is your path, how you travel it and get to your destination is up to you alone, and not I, nor any other human, has the right or knowledge to say that your path is wrong.  Thus, the inverse holds true too.

I do find it ironic, the overall mentality of "one way" in a world where we create things that solve problems and perform tasks using different methods. We're all designed so dramatically differently, that there is no possible way that everyone can follow one way to the destination.

I understood source to mean the bible. If you didn't, then I was horribly wrong. Having said that, you're not technically a christian if you're only following the ideas that please you. The bible's there for a reason, it's in christian doctrine considered words inspired by the spirit of God. Timothy 3:16

Having said that, I'll say I personally am not reading it either, but I have my reasons to (I can't handle it, lol).

But honestly I find your path a bit disingenuous. It's your path so I appreciate it as your personal path, but to be fully honest if you were really interested in the bible you'd learn latin and ancient greek or at least try to see how you could overcome the "translation errors".

But whatever, good luck my friend I don't condemn you, but I do strongly disagree with you, if that's ok.

You may absolutely disagree with me, vehemently, in fact. =) Most people do!

One thing that stuck from Catholic school (yeah, i went to 12 years of it! ugh!) One of the Brothers said to not read the bible literally, but figuratively. Extract the message, but don't take every word for word.

I've read parts of it, I tried with the OT, got through Exodus before nearly giving up, switched to the Gospels, was a better read. Admittedly, I don't put a lot of stock in the OT.

As for learning the ancient languages, that's where you have to make a decision - to be a dedicated historian, or to live life and ask for guidance. The Lord's been generous to me, and in return I go with the flow and end up put in places He sees me needed. =)



The Carnival of Shadows - Folk Punk from Asbury Park, New Jersey

http://www.thecarnivalofshadows.com 


I would agree with youtube's Styxhexenhammer666 ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KIi7rFMifA via http://www.youtube.com/user/Styxhexenhammer666 ) that when Christianity finally has to say that it's just a philosophy in order to have any followers left, then they should lose their tax exempt status.

When do I see Christianity having a great falling Away? Within the next 50 to 200 years ( http://youtu.be/gHbYJfwFgOU via http://www.youtube.com/user/bigthink ).

In 200 years it will probably be looked upon as no more than a cultural curiosity from the Dark Ages.

In the next 15 to 25 years through Millennial Fever could reach its height depending upon whether the Asteroid Apophis really hits the earth between 2025 and 2036 ( http://youtu.be/xaW4Ol3_M1o via http://www.youtube.com/user/ForaTv ). If it does the Christians will be proclaiming that it was Wormwood from "Revelations" and going out of their heads.

But most of the Big Time Televangelists that these people put a lot of stock in ( http://youtu.be/L9jvlKxGHrs via http://www.youtube.com/user/hager3030 ) have been telling them that Jesus has to come back before the Last Jew that was present at the Reformation of Israel in 1948 dies going back at least to the publication of Hal Lindsey's "Late Great Planet Earth" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Late,_Great_Planet_Earth ) in the early '70s.

Naturally when the Last Jew that was present at The Reformation of Israel dies and Jesus fails to show up yet again a lot of the Fundamentalists raised on this brand of Eschatology will lose faith.

And of course more exposure to better education across the board reaching more and more people will produce the same result ( http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2011/04/11/why-education-decreases-religi/ ).

Now there is still the slim chance that these Fundamentalists will somehow find a way to get in charge of the military arsenal of the World's Major Military Super Power ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5dflaTV3JM via http://www.youtube.com/user/Styxhexenhammer666 ) and be in a position to put one of their Apocalyptic Scenarios into play and be in a position to kill a major percentage of the people on earth as could have been the result of the past US Presidential Election.

If Romney had been elected ( and especially if the GOP had also won both Houses of Congress), America probably would have begun a Catastrophic War in the Middle East the day following Romney's inauguration that could have involved nuclear weaponry. Especially with the Mormon belief that after their White Horse takes Office that there has to be a worldwide catastrophe to usher in the reign of Jesus on earth ( http://youtu.be/c2t1Io9s6GE via http://www.youtube.com/user/newcarabu).

Of course Romney's defeat and the abject failure of Joseph Smith's "White Horse Prophecy" have greatly diminished the threat from Mormonism for the foreseeable future ( http://youtu.be/kvNtXCq9C-0 via http://www.youtube.com/user/newcarabu ); however, you can definitely expect the Catholic Church / Cult to try to make a similar push in the 2016 Elections with their new Pope and more than likely a Conservative Catholic as the GOP's Presidential nominee.

At the end of the day and as their history clearly shows ( http://youtu.be/ilfSlpENb2Y & http://youtu.be/AZnJr_2HbXc via http://www.youtube.com/user/kurtilein3 And  http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm  ), these sorts of folks don't care what happens or how many people or harmed or killed just as long as their precious ideology is protected.

To check out the links, you may need to copy and paste them in your url address bar.



Trunkin said:
DanneSandin said:

I have to admit that my knowledge of the Bible is all that great; I only know bits and pieces, so I can't make a full argument about everything in it. All I can do is look upon certain passages and say "heeey, wait a minute here! THAT doesn't seem very nice!" I don't quite know what Jesus said, so I don't fully understand what parts of the OT is rendered obsolete.

They keep finding parts of the Bible (don't know what they're called, evangelists? Those letters that constitute the NT from Peter and the likes) that DIDN'T make the cut into the book. And it wasn't until sometime around the 300's that Jesus officially was considered the son of god by the church. So there's been quite some cherry picking even before the Early Modern time period, in which the English Bible was written.

I can't say my knowledge of the Bible is all that great either. I've only just recently started doing some research for myself.

There was apparently quite a debate over which writings would make it into the Bible back in the day. I have to agree that quite a bit of clipping was done when the Book was first compiled, which is why I find it extremely hard to accept that the Protestant bible, or even the 73 book Catholic Bible, can possibly contain everything that needs to be known. I don't have access to the earliest manuscripts, though, nor to I have access to someone who could make sense of them for me if I did. -_-

On the topic of Jesus being the son of God, interestingly enough, most modern translations of the Bible that I've read don't have him outright making the claim. He infered it, sure, but never outright said it. Now that I think about it, I don't recall any OT prophets saying that the Christ would be the son of God either. Also, the very meaning of the term is up for debate. 

You're quite right



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Raze said:

You may absolutely disagree with me, vehemently, in fact. =) Most people do!

One thing that stuck from Catholic school (yeah, i went to 12 years of it! ugh!) One of the Brothers said to not read the bible literally, but figuratively. Extract the message, but don't take every word for word.

I've read parts of it, I tried with the OT, got through Exodus before nearly giving up, switched to the Gospels, was a better read. Admittedly, I don't put a lot of stock in the OT.

As for learning the ancient languages, that's where you have to make a decision - to be a dedicated historian, or to live life and ask for guidance. The Lord's been generous to me, and in return I go with the flow and end up put in places He sees me needed. =)

The Lord works in mysterious ways =)



Trunkin said:

...

The OT still has to be used as a guideline of sorts, but Christians toss out the parts that Jesus stood against. The story of the adulterous woman is a good example in this case, as he told her to "go and sin no more." He wasn't saying that adultery was okay, only that he would not condemn her for it. Although I do agree that it isn't "Christlike" to treat gays the way many Christians today do.

Now, I'm unfamiliar with any drastic changes made to the NT texts over the years, but, even if you're right, the commonly used King James Bible was written over 400 years ago, so my statement still stands: These teachings didn't just come around recently. Hence, not cherry picking.

...

Interestingly enough, the portion you just cited - Jesus stopping the stoning of the adulterous woman - is widely considered by paleographers and other scholars of biblical textual analysis to be a very late addition to John. The oldest copy dates to the 4th century, and it does not appear in greek versions of John dating back to the second century. Also, linguistic analysis of the greek text seem to indicate a different hand from the main author(s) of John. John itself being the latest gospel (written around the end of the first century) it was already the one that tried most to distantiate christianity from the judaic beliefs and to build christology, which might explain why latter additions were done in that sense.

It makes little difference in this discussion, as the theology of tolerance it professes is central to what became christianity as we know it today in contrast to OT, whatever reason the 3rd century biblical writers and editors had to include it; I just found it interesting seeing it mentioned together with changes to the NT in the very next paragraph :)



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman