As I've stated before, not a lot of things in this World can truely be explained. For example, why did man create Religion. And why did he create the Big Bang theory? If I can account both of these as truths since no knowledge can be obtained as to why it happened.  And each opposing side appears to believe the other.   Both can be viewed as true. There is no predicability on this one Either both are right, or both are wrong. The belief in the existence of Dark Matter is no more different to the belief in God. If neither can be proved wrong, they are, in their own virtue, a gospel truth. And science doesn't exactly prove anything.

Sure after studying the life of plants we humans have deducted that it's Sun, seeds, water and other organisms that causes them to grow. Can Science explain why this happens? And if so, can they explain how that happened? See? Like I've said, It's just gonna go on forever And I think it's truely ashame that after all the Religions man has adopted, people are trying to say that it was based on premativity? Sure sounds loco if you ask me.   I've said that to say this, If some study of modern life can determine how the World began (This is just for arguement's sake, honestly how are we to believe something that happened so long ago, before our existance and without much to back it up?) That still doesn't explain why it happened. 

Granted, the same could be done with Religion, that being said, I've stated that to show how laughable the Science vs Religion debate stands with me and many others.  If someone said, "Hey, I don't think there's a God", I could understand that and respect it, but trying to debate it with these external science "facts" and that we're now ignorant to believe in God because we now know how our World works a little better.  It's just a couple of squirrels shy of a nut house, if you ask me.

Here's something else that Science and man will never truely be able to understand nor label, Why can't we all be like animals with disregard for no one but our selfs? And how come most every culture has the same basis as to what is right and what is wrong? Where is this decided in our DNA? :p

And for those out there who say we adopted Religion because of a fear of death if we truely feared death to a point of yielding to an unknown  force, why is it that Ancient Egytians, believed in both God and reincarnation? In fact, lots of Ancients believed in reincarnation,  like the Mayans So my analogy is this, believing in God has no correlation with the fear of death. You people just come off as opinionated to me.

Surely we do know more about our surrondings than before, but we still can't determine where our minds go after we die, and if we are truely being reborned into other vessels or we just stay in limbo, or go to Heaven or Hell. And that Big Bang Theory...If we existed by chance, and there was no God, then how come the realization of God came to us before that theory? That just sounds like a mad (albiet, intellegent) person trying to make humans play God to me.

And if my post sounds offensive or demeaning, that surely wasn't my intention as I respect all beliefs (Not believing is also a belief!) and only wish for others to do the same.

Also, nice note DaRev! They can't disregard some logics and accept others!

Hmmmmm proof.  As someone said before in this very thread, proof is sometimes subjective.  What I can give you isn't absolute proof that could be accepted by a court but rather proof that proves to me the probability of there existing a God and that his religion is that of the Muslim religion.  So where do I start with you?

You seem to be an Atheist, correct?  If that is the case I can't simply point out the contradictions in the Jewish and Christian Religions and say how the Quran fixes them after they have been changed.  The only way one can prove something like this to you would be to begin with trying to prove that God exists in the first place.

I think the best way to do this is to apply a certain concept which I feel most scientists ignore.  People believe what they see, correct?  Ok granted it doesn't have to be literal seeing, it could be feeling or tasting or hearing ect... But, in the end our Universe is filled with things that we understand, and things that we don't understand.  But we only understand what we can see. 

Let me try to explain myself better.  If we lived in a universe where water was a gas and not liquid.  would ANYONE say, you know, water because of its strange atom composition should be a liquid because the Hydrogen bonds would form small bonds with Oxygen of different molecules turing it from a gas to a liquid?  No, why?  Becayse that is what he had observed in that universe and it wouldn't even occur to us that it could (or even should) be something different.

Everyone talks about how science has given us answers and yet, can they, through knowledge of math and logic ALONE figure out the secrets of the Universe?  Impossible, why?  Because the Universe doesn't follow a logical pattern, everything we know, we know it because we have seen in and studied it, physics is physics because that is what we have studied.  Now, it is impossible to break the spead of light.  Tomorrow that might change, on that same day, rules, application, concepts ect...Will change with it. 

So in the end, what gave our Universe shape and structure?  What gave the Earth that perfect balance of minerals, energy, landscapes, a speed of rotation that can support life. AND THEN gave us that spark for life to begin?  Coincidence? It is possible, but still let me continue

Ok, let me put it another way.  Stephen Hawking once said that the creating of the Universe from nothing was inevitable.  He is a man far more intelligent and learned than I so I will assume that what he says is true.  But why did the Universe end up this way?  Why aren't the laws of chemistry and physics backwards?  How did a Universe so large, so vast, so uninhabiting, create the perfect, absolute perfect conditions for the rise of life, AND THEN that life created intelligent life capable of studying and (to an exent) understanding its own origins and begin to wonder how we can leave the confines of our planet and start journeys to other worlds.....ALL IN THE SPACE OF 1 MILLION YEARS (in other words a milisecond by universe standards).

There is plenty of things that I can give form the Quran, like (my brother knew a bunch) how it talks about the Earth being Oval shaped or egg shaped, about how it new that pain is felt in the nerve sensors which are located no deeper than the skin. And....curse my memory....The amount of scientific facts it has had that has no right not be in a book from that period is incredible. How it has so much from the Jewish and Christian religions but not from what they became, but rather their origins.  How the prophet (an uneducated man) could never have created such a fantastic book with the kind of style and pros to make the masters of the art weep without ever have written anything of his own before, and his method of speech was completely different.

I've talked about these things before but obviously they wouldn't interest you without that simple belief that there is a god in the first place.  My proof is that when I look around me, I see Earth.  A planet that, normally, would have an incredible ecosystem, one of perfect balance until humans came along and broke the laws of that balance.  I see humans which will do acts of kindness and selflessness that could never be expected from animals and then I see acts of cruelty that could never be imitated by them.  We are very simmialr to animals in some respects but its these few things, our extremes, our applications of intelligence, our attempts to learn and better ourselves that are so far removed from animal instinct that one has to wonder, was Darwin correct?  Are we evolved from apes?  Or, was it that he believed that we evolved from something, looked around and found apes so simillar and said "AH that must be it"?

Maybe it is my own fear that there is nothing after death, I will grant you that.  But I see proof.  I haven't seen God, he doesn't come and chat with me regularly.  You might find it strange that I believe in something whose effects aren't........measurable for lack of a better word.  But I find it stranger that just because you can't find proof of it, or enough proof, you immiediatly assume it is false even though there is no proof to the contrary.

I apologize, I know I haven't proven it in the way that you had wanted or asked for.  I myself am limited in my knowledge in my own religion.  But I hope you will at least think about some of these questions and look at the world and people around you and ask yourself, did all of this REALLY come from nothing?

1) ….? OK, I’m not going to argue for argument sake. My advice to you is that God is not found in a science book.

2) Pal, science BELIEVES in unknowns and possibilities clearly, as if it didn’t, there wouldn’t be any reason to go out and prove anything since everything would already be known. Science must believe in UNKOWNS to drive it forward in its pursuit of understanding how things work or how they came to be. Therefore you must believe in an unknown, the Universe expanding, to eventually prove it as a true or not.

3) It has everything to do with what we are discussing, because the Bible says where the human race came from, unscientifically I might add, which ultimately is connected to whether what’s written therein is from man or from God, as man cannot write evidence of creation when he himself was created. In essence, my question is then, does Science have a better our more plausible explanation? All you science geeks seem to claim that it does, well, let’s hear it. Is a monkey your ancient grandmother, or did your ancestor crawl out of a cesspit, or were they wonderfully created in the image of God?  

4) Sorry, I forgot to delete that bit before I posted it. In any event, since you posted some questions, I would say that Jesus, so far as Christianity is concerned, is out Higgs Particle o_O  Anyways, if you’re able to discount Jesus, then the whole of Christianity falls apart. So forget all the 66 books all the teaching principles and all that, Jesus is from Genesis to Revelation, the beginning and the end of the Bible, if Jesus is not true then the Bible is not!

2)    2  Lol, yeah like if you hear something strange and your feeble brain doesn’t kick in automatically to try and reason what that thing might be lol, you just draw a blank? Lol What rubbish. So you hear a strange sound in your house at 3am while you’re asleep and your brain doesn’t consider the possibilities of what that sound is? Lol, no wonder you believe in Dark Matter because that seems to be clouding your brain. You should have Grey Matter in there dude not Dark Matter.

3)    3  Right,…so you have no answer for where humans came from, got it. But you believe in Dark Matter? The Bible’s explanation satisfies me, the same way that Dark Matter explanation satisfies you. I bet you don’t know everything there is to know about Dark Matter, but you still believe in it. Well apply that same thinking to the Bible.

 4)   4  I think the Bible migght agree with you, in that there will come a time when people disbelieve the existence of God so much, that he/Jesus then returns. So the key is to get rid of all the Christians o_O

5)    5 Dude, if we found who created life on earth nothing else about that entity would matter. Anyways, the bible doesn’t claim to know all there is about God, that’s why we apply Faith and believe in the Holy Spirit. Do you always assume so much about the Bible? It just cracks me up how people like you try to argue religion with a religious people and expect to make sense, after reading nothing on the subject - your ignorance is rife.

1. Well firstly, who exactly has the rights to verify something as truth? The Government says Bin Laden was killed in a night raid and tossed into the ocean. Most people don't exactly believe that and it's most likely a fabrication. But his death is accounted as a truth. (See Wikipedia).

2. Also don't you guys think God is a falsity, and most people think God's a truth? Doesn't that right there form a contradicting ideal? And by majority rules logic, you guys would be wrong right away, as even scientists have to reach a consensus to validate their findings.

3. No one has to believe anything. That's up to them entirely.

4. I never said anything about the values of every culture's God as being true, only that God is. Because such things as a bird God (Ra), has correlation with an earthly entity. He's based off of an eagle with a human body. Earthly concepts. For example, when man thought up BigFoot he imagined a man-ape hybrid. When he thought of Unicorns, he added a horn to a horse. Just like, Aliens, ghosts, Pokemons, ect. This also goes for evolution, man deducted that apes are the closest an animal gets to a human and such the basis for all evolution was formed.

5. Man doesn't possess the innate ability to establish something from nothing. Could we have thought of something like a tree if we were all blind and had no senses to analyze it? The only way someone could think of something as abstract as a invisible force that in which we all have to yield to would be by accident. But there must have been a lot of accidents then, since most civilizations believed in God.

6. I'd like to know where in my previous posts did I ever say the Christian God was real. And if you thought I was a Christian, then that's a misconception on your part. if someone can truly answer how and why man created such an abstract concept such as yielding to an unknown force that has zero correlation with the rest of the World, and still today believes in it, then I'd love to hear it.

7. Also, Philosophy is more of a subjective matter than Science. Not even this field can answer why, though it attempts to. Many people will have different answers, so either all of them are right or all of them are wrong. Because we can't determine the intentions of our ancestors when they would respond to urges and moral codes, a definitive unanimity would not be possible to incur. Trying to disprove Religion with philosophy or answer ethics with it will never happen, as this field is mostly based on individual opinions on how these system(s) work. And as for your third point, I'd suggest you go back to the 'lab' and write a better reason for it than that. Then again, you sound pretty confident in it and if you really believe in that reasoning, I think I'm severely wasting my time here.

8. Lions are social and so are fish, but are their moral codes on line with ours? As I said before, the aims of these people will never be completely clear to us, as we have no knowledge of what went through their minds when they would reject murder, theft, lies, ect and approve of slavery and other things. I said most all cultures had the same basis for ethics, not that all are the same.

9. Considering all people believe what they see, and they use that to determine how things work. They'd determine that the clouds made thunderstorms, as such storms only exist with clouds present. Gods like Zeus was more of a reason for it, not how it came to be, seeing as many archaic Gods are based off of several concepts, many of which are familiar to just about anyone, like love, war, celebration, ect. It seems like a step backwards to believe in God just because of that.

10, Also, we can't ascertain as to the intentions of these ancients so we'll never know, why Zeus or Ra were initially created. That is simply the thinking of someone raised into a society were principles are already established.

11. Curiosity would have been a better answer. God Is probably the only completely abstract thing that came into existence, and that alone is enough reason for most people to follow it, though it's not exactly enough for others. Like Fireforgey has stated, certain evidence can be subjective to some people and not for others. Some people say the contents of the Bible is more than enough reason for them to believe, regardless of it's origins or who actually wrote it. This is the same for Muslims, Jews and many other religions.

12. As for that last thing, I clearly said "Not believing is also a belief." There is a difference. Don't twist words. It doesn't help your argument.