If God doesnt exist then who wrote the bible ?

[Cheebee]

Fireforgey said:

Hmmmmm proof.  As someone said before in this very thread, proof is sometimes subjective.  What I can give you isn't absolute proof that could be accepted by a court but rather proof that proves to me the probability of there existing a God and that his religion is that of the Muslim religion.  So where do I start with you?

You seem to be an Atheist, correct?  If that is the case I can't simply point out the contradictions in the Jewish and Christian Religions and say how the Quran fixes them after they have been changed.  The only way one can prove something like this to you would be to begin with trying to prove that God exists in the first place.

I think the best way to do this is to apply a certain concept which I feel most scientists ignore.  People believe what they see, correct?  Ok granted it doesn't have to be literal seeing, it could be feeling or tasting or hearing ect... But, in the end our Universe is filled with things that we understand, and things that we don't understand.  But we only understand what we can see. 

Let me try to explain myself better.  If we lived in a universe where water was a gas and not liquid.  would ANYONE say, you know, water because of its strange atom composition should be a liquid because the Hydrogen bonds would form small bonds with Oxygen of different molecules turing it from a gas to a liquid?  No, why?  Becayse that is what he had observed in that universe and it wouldn't even occur to us that it could (or even should) be something different.

Everyone talks about how science has given us answers and yet, can they, through knowledge of math and logic ALONE figure out the secrets of the Universe?  Impossible, why?  Because the Universe doesn't follow a logical pattern, everything we know, we know it because we have seen in and studied it, physics is physics because that is what we have studied.  Now, it is impossible to break the spead of light.  Tomorrow that might change, on that same day, rules, application, concepts ect...Will change with it. 

So in the end, what gave our Universe shape and structure?  What gave the Earth that perfect balance of minerals, energy, landscapes, a speed of rotation that can support life. AND THEN gave us that spark for life to begin?  Coincidence? It is possible, but still let me continue

Ok, let me put it another way.  Stephen Hawking once said that the creating of the Universe from nothing was inevitable.  He is a man far more intelligent and learned than I so I will assume that what he says is true.  But why did the Universe end up this way?  Why aren't the laws of chemistry and physics backwards?  How did a Universe so large, so vast, so uninhabiting, create the perfect, absolute perfect conditions for the rise of life, AND THEN that life created intelligent life capable of studying and (to an exent) understanding its own origins and begin to wonder how we can leave the confines of our planet and start journeys to other worlds.....ALL IN THE SPACE OF 1 MILLION YEARS (in other words a milisecond by universe standards).

There is plenty of things that I can give form the Quran, like (my brother knew a bunch) how it talks about the Earth being Oval shaped or egg shaped, about how it new that pain is felt in the nerve sensors which are located no deeper than the skin. And....curse my memory....The amount of scientific facts it has had that has no right not be in a book from that period is incredible. How it has so much from the Jewish and Christian religions but not from what they became, but rather their origins.  How the prophet (an uneducated man) could never have created such a fantastic book with the kind of style and pros to make the masters of the art weep without ever have written anything of his own before, and his method of speech was completely different.

I've talked about these things before but obviously they wouldn't interest you without that simple belief that there is a god in the first place.  My proof is that when I look around me, I see Earth.  A planet that, normally, would have an incredible ecosystem, one of perfect balance until humans came along and broke the laws of that balance.  I see humans which will do acts of kindness and selflessness that could never be expected from animals and then I see acts of cruelty that could never be imitated by them.  We are very simmialr to animals in some respects but its these few things, our extremes, our applications of intelligence, our attempts to learn and better ourselves that are so far removed from animal instinct that one has to wonder, was Darwin correct?  Are we evolved from apes?  Or, was it that he believed that we evolved from something, looked around and found apes so simillar and said "AH that must be it"?

Maybe it is my own fear that there is nothing after death, I will grant you that.  But I see proof.  I haven't seen God, he doesn't come and chat with me regularly.  You might find it strange that I believe in something whose effects aren't........measurable for lack of a better word.  But I find it stranger that just because you can't find proof of it, or enough proof, you immiediatly assume it is false even though there is no proof to the contrary.

 

I apologize, I know I haven't proven it in the way that you had wanted or asked for.  I myself am limited in my knowledge in my own religion.  But I hope you will at least think about some of these questions and look at the world and people around you and ask yourself, did all of this REALLY come from nothing?

Well, thanks for that very thorough reply. Since you went to all that trouble, I feel I should make a reply in my turn.

So, well, like you pointed out in your final paragraph, your wall of text didn't actually provide any proof at all, whatsoever. You explained your personal view and beliefs as to why you think a god must exist. And I appreciate that, really. But you honestly gave no proof as to why such a being must, in any shape or form, exist. However, since you also did bring up Hawking, I'd point out that he actually provides a lot extremely valid, enlightening, logical and easy-to-understand explanations and comments to the questions and observations raised in your post. It's all very, very thorough, so I'd recommend you take a gander at some of his books, as I cannot begin to explain all that here, as much as I'd like to.

However, I do understand very well where you're coming from, and it's of course perfectly fine for you, or anyone else for that matter, to believe in any sort of god. It's just that I, personally, don't.