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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - [Unofficial Rumour] World Exclusive: Durango unveiled

CGI-Quality said:
ninjablade said:
CGI-Quality said:
ninjablade said:

WiiU only has 1gb of ram for gaming and its 2x slower then 360 ram, so it has the biggest problem holding back current gen, ram.

Eh, the amount and type of RAM are sufficient for the OS and there's little evidence right now that there are any games held back because of it. Besides, there were more issues this gen than RAM and mainly only for just one console (512MB was plenty in 2005/'06 and the 360's unified RAM worked wonders).

I have no doubt that the the next PlayStation and Xbox systems will be more powerful, but not to the extent that Nintendo should pack up their tents anytime soon.

the  biggest issue is ram, from what i read, then you have a very weak cpu, if the wii u is struggling with 360 ports, i don't see how wii u is gonna take ports that are pusing the new nextgen systems, you must not really understand the importance of ram.

I understand the importance of RAM, I'll built a rig with more of it than all next gen consoles will have combined, you just don't get what I'm saying - a common occurrence in our discussions. In fact, I never ruled out RAM issue, it's just that not everything is as it seems. Yes, the Wi U's CPU is weaker, per clock, than the PS3 and 360's, but that's irrelevant given that we have yet to see what the system can really do and, as I said, this gen had a system with RAM that was split, and still could produce results that were virtually unrivaled on any device not called PC.

Overall, the WiiU is every bit as powerful as the PS3 & 360, which ironically, has every bit to do with its RAM (which is greater than either as well). I wouldn't advise tackling tech discussions unless you have a full grasp of the functions.

Ive never understood why some people think Wii U is weaker than current gen consoles

As you said the CPU is pretty weak in it but it has much better RAM and GPU in it.  While it will still be underpowered compared to Durango/Orbis it is clearly better than 360/PS3.  People just havent built optomized engines for the hardware yet.



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Wii U is stronger than PS360... there is no reason to anybody deny that.

/end



I dont think the gap between Ps4 and 720 are as big as many had hoped.



Yay!!!

kowenicki said:
TheSource said:
kowenicki said:
someone translate please...

good, bad, garbage, awesome?


It means the next Xbox runs on pure magic, ponies and whimsy.


sounds good.

I like magic.....



BenVTrigger said:
CGI-Quality said:
ninjablade said:
CGI-Quality said:
ninjablade said:

WiiU only has 1gb of ram for gaming and its 2x slower then 360 ram, so it has the biggest problem holding back current gen, ram.

Eh, the amount and type of RAM are sufficient for the OS and there's little evidence right now that there are any games held back because of it. Besides, there were more issues this gen than RAM and mainly only for just one console (512MB was plenty in 2005/'06 and the 360's unified RAM worked wonders).

I have no doubt that the the next PlayStation and Xbox systems will be more powerful, but not to the extent that Nintendo should pack up their tents anytime soon.

the  biggest issue is ram, from what i read, then you have a very weak cpu, if the wii u is struggling with 360 ports, i don't see how wii u is gonna take ports that are pusing the new nextgen systems, you must not really understand the importance of ram.

I understand the importance of RAM, I'll built a rig with more of it than all next gen consoles will have combined, you just don't get what I'm saying - a common occurrence in our discussions. In fact, I never ruled out RAM issue, it's just that not everything is as it seems. Yes, the Wi U's CPU is weaker, per clock, than the PS3 and 360's, but that's irrelevant given that we have yet to see what the system can really do and, as I said, this gen had a system with RAM that was split, and still could produce results that were virtually unrivaled on any device not called PC.

Overall, the WiiU is every bit as powerful as the PS3 & 360, which ironically, has every bit to do with its RAM (which is greater than either as well). I wouldn't advise tackling tech discussions unless you have a full grasp of the functions.

Ive never understood why some people think Wii U is weaker than current gen consoles

As you said the CPU is pretty weak in it but it has much better RAM and GPU in it.  While it will still be underpowered compared to Durango/Orbis it is clearly better than 360/PS3.  People just havent built optomized engines for the hardware yet.

its doesn't have much better ram, as i said before it has 1 gb of ram for games, 2x slower then 360 ram meaning ram is baiscally the same as 360.



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CGI-Quality said:
ninjablade said:
CGI-Quality said:
ninjablade said:

WiiU only has 1gb of ram for gaming and its 2x slower then 360 ram, so it has the biggest problem holding back current gen, ram.

Eh, the amount and type of RAM are sufficient for the OS and there's little evidence right now that there are any games held back because of it. Besides, there were more issues this gen than RAM and mainly only for just one console (512MB was plenty in 2005/'06 and the 360's unified RAM worked wonders).

I have no doubt that the the next PlayStation and Xbox systems will be more powerful, but not to the extent that Nintendo should pack up their tents anytime soon.

the  biggest issue is ram, from what i read, then you have a very weak cpu, if the wii u is struggling with 360 ports, i don't see how wii u is gonna take ports that are pusing the new nextgen systems, you must not really understand the importance of ram.

I understand the importance of RAM, I'll built a rig with more of it than all next gen consoles will have combined, you just don't get what I'm saying - a common occurrence in our discussions. In fact, I never ruled out a RAM issue, the problems go beyond that, however. Yes, the WiiU's CPU is weaker, per clock, than the PS3 and 360's, but that's irrelevant given that we have yet to see what the system can really do and, as I said, this gen had a system with RAM that was split, and still could produce results that were virtually unrivaled on any device not called PC.

Overall, the WiiU is every bit as powerful as the PS3 & 360, which ironically, has much to do with its RAM. But despite all that, I wouldn't advise tackling tech talk unless you have a full grasp of the functions and when you can produce something to prove the WiiU is in trouble because of its RAM (games, for example), we can take the next step. ;)

the 360 ram was not split, only ps3 was, thats why some ps3 games like skyrim and fall out 3 had problems.



This is a far more interesting design...
http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220120159090%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20120159090&RS=DN/20120159090

Essentially the system can be split to serve multiple functions. 

Figure 3A defines how a system's cores and GPUs could be split to serve two primary functions, one dedicated to one function, while the other could be used for any secondary functions. 

Figure 4 defines is a detailed view of the configuration of the system.  Similar to the image in the OP, but much more specific and showing the split system.

Figure 5 shows a system capable of what would appear to be upgradeable memory.  5B appears to detail that system configuration in even more detail.

Note:  If you can't see the images, download AlternaTiff.



BenVTrigger said:
ethomaz said:

BenVTrigger said:

It doesnt run top end PC games at 1080p 120 FPS. 

It will however play top end games like Battlefiield 3 1080p 60 FPS though.  Bump the resolution down to 720p 30 FPS and developers could push some serious crazy graphics out though.  I expect 1080p 30 FPS will be the standard next gen though

I'm just using the rumors... the HD 7970M run the Battlefiield 3 1080p at 60 FPS in High/Ultra setthings... so that GPU in a dedicaded and optmized machine can do way better than that.

The HD 7970M run Skyrim Ultra 1080p too.


That is true.  I wasnt thinking about its performance in a dedicated console.  

Considering it can run Battlefield 3 in ultra in a PC at 1080p though shoukd show its power.  If the specs for Orbis are true its a massive jump over current gen.

Thats why Im so curious whats goin on inside Durango. On paper it appears to be weaker but nearly everyone with inside information are saying its just as powerful as Orbis due to its "secret sauce"

Well, a couple of them are MS biased, so they may just be saying it will close the gap of the GPUs.  However, if they are correct, they still don't take into account that the PS4 is supposed to have its own "secret sauce."  So, there would still be a gap.  It'll probably be like his gen, only the PS4 will be easier to develop for, so more devs can easily take advantage of it.



CGI-Quality said:
ninjablade said:
CGI-Quality said:
ninjablade said:
CGI-Quality said:

Eh, the amount and type of RAM are sufficient for the OS and there's little evidence right now that there are any games held back because of it. Besides, there were more issues this gen than RAM and mainly only for just one console (512MB was plenty in 2005/'06 and the 360's unified RAM worked wonders).

I have no doubt that the the next PlayStation and Xbox systems will be more powerful, but not to the extent that Nintendo should pack up their tents anytime soon.

the  biggest issue is ram, from what i read, then you have a very weak cpu, if the wii u is struggling with 360 ports, i don't see how wii u is gonna take ports that are pusing the new nextgen systems, you must not really understand the importance of ram.

I understand the importance of RAM, I'll built a rig with more of it than all next gen consoles will have combined, you just don't get what I'm saying - a common occurrence in our discussions. In fact, I never ruled out a RAM issue, the problems go beyond that, however. Yes, the WiiU's CPU is weaker, per clock, than the PS3 and 360's, but that's irrelevant given that we have yet to see what the system can really do and, as I said, this gen had a system with RAM that was split, and still could produce results that were virtually unrivaled on any device not called PC.

Overall, the WiiU is every bit as powerful as the PS3 & 360, which ironically, has much to do with its RAM. But despite all that, I wouldn't advise tackling tech talk unless you have a full grasp of the functions and when you can produce something to prove the WiiU is in trouble because of its RAM (games, for example), we can take the next step. ;)

the 360 ram was not split, only ps3 was, thats why some ps3 games like skyrim and fall out 3 had problems.

I never said the 360's RAM was split. 

you don't understand, many deveoplers have said wiiu is on par with currentgen, currentgen is already struggling to keep up, games like , crysis 1 and 2,  ac3, far cry 3 run like crap and are sub hd, like COD blops 2, how is wiiu gonna keep up when they take it to the  next level. games like uncharted 3 and halo 4 are condsidered miracles because how of the limited amount of ram they had to work with, sacrafices were made though because of the ram to both games.



ethomaz said:

1337 Gamer said:

That chart is wrong.. Atleast in terms of the price point of those GPUs. THe GTX 285 cost much more than $350 back when it was released and even looking at those charts to release the card to the consumer it cost them $163.46 to manufacture everything. Yes i know that was a larger Die in terms of mm^2 but even so to actually build the card with the memory and other necessary parts and custom heatsinks and what not your looking at well over $100. Far more than the $50 your specified. A GPU needs much more than just the silicon die.

That's the point for a console it didn't because the same components used to GPU is used to CPU and the full system too... you don't have separated parts like PC... so the memory cost is for the full system and not just GPU.


Yes you are correct to an extent. But you do realize that you have to quadrouple the amount of needed memory assuming of course that the PS3 is really going to use 4GB if GDDR5. Yes probably the price has come down but your still probably looking at $80 to $100 for just the memory. And you still need to factor in the CPU cost and cooling and the case and power supply and things of that nature. There is no way it can be done for $400.



I mostly play RTS and Moba style games now adays as well as ALOT of benchmarking. I do play other games however such as the witcher 3 and Crysis 3, and recently Ashes of the Singularity. I love gaming on the cutting edge and refuse to accept any compromises. Proud member of the Glorious PC Gaming Master Race. Long Live SHIO!!!!