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Forums - General Discussion - Elementary School Shooting Leaves 27 Dead(20 children)(Shooter son of teacher)

Kasz216 on 14 December 2012
arcane_chaos said:
Kasz216 said:
arcane_chaos said:

the thing that saddens me is that in recent memory we've had
The Arizona shooting
Aurora Theater shotting
2 mall shootings
and now this

and yet no real talk about gun control/ban WTF!?

That would be bcause gun control/bans would be an illogical topic considering the science and statistics is against such an arguement.

and to bring it up, really just crass emotional arguement in the worst possible tatse... people who do should really be ashamed of themselves.


I would just like to see the conversation brought up not after we have a tragedy like this, it just pains me that we had a tragedy just like this during the election; the Aurora theater shooting, it became a hot topic for about a week or two and just vanished...

I don't know how old you are... but in general there used to be a pretty big gun debate.

It pretty much died away after pretty much all the research on the subject showed that guns availability really wasn't a factor in crimes in general, and surprisingly crime and violent crme showed a negative correlation with gun ownership.  (IE, more guns, less crimes, less murders.)

Which isn't really THAT suprising when you consider only like... 5% of guns are ever used in any kind of illegal activity.   Let alone a situation like a spree murder, where they are so rare, that you average like around 2 a year... in a country with a population as high as ours.

 

In general, violent crime seems to be caused by drugs and income disparity.

 

Now the real question is... what's up with the Mass Shootings NOW.  Gun laws haven't changed?  So why would you go there?   I'd think a better question would be... why have there been so many in one year?

 

I mean, it might just be population growth, might be something else... but that's a productive question to ask.



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Lafiel on 14 December 2012
yum123 said:

2nd over 2.5 million people used a gun to defend themselves last year, compared to like 25k that were murder by them.  

and theres your problem. that many people wouldnt have needed to defend themselves if no one carried guns. Just look at the facts america has the highest gun deaths of any country that is not war torn and the only with gun culture.

where I live 90+% of the population dont even know where to find a gun and if people just get in a fist fight it sometimes makes the news, 

anyway theres no point in wasting my breathe theres no changing your mind but something needs to be done to he us culture of guns for this to stop happening.

yea, in these debates americans convinced me that americans know what is best for america

and that it'd be tragic if americans stopped buying german guns



MARCUSDJACKSON on 14 December 2012
yum123 said:
killerzX said:
yum123 said:
killerzX said:

wow this is sad. my heart and prayers go out to these people. this kind of people just make me so freakin mad. i hate this.

yet another shooting happens in a gun free zone. how many of these shootings have to happen before people realize how unsafe these gun free zones are.

if just the school had an armed gaurd/teacher/faculty member, they may have been able to stop this senseless tragedy.


youve got to be kidding me. this is part the reason things like this happen predominantly in america. Guns are so embedded in your culture that they lead to things like this. Guns should be banned completely. if law abiders were armed there would probably be more dead from bullets flying everywhere. only an american would have that response


that is just factually untrue. first of all the is zero evidence that shows more law abiding gun owners make shootings worse by having "bullets fly everywhere".

2nd over 2.5 million people used a gun to defend themselves last year, compared to like 25k that were murder by them.

also concealed carry permit holders are shown to be some of the most reasponsible and law abiding group of citizeny in the entire US.

also criminals dont follow laws, you think they care if guns a banned? the only thing that does is make the work invironment safer. criminals love gun control. it makes for easier victims

2nd over 2.5 million people used a gun to defend themselves last year, compared to like 25k that were murder by them.  

and theres your problem. that many people wouldnt have needed to defend themselves if no one carried guns. Just look at the facts america has the highest gun deaths of any country that is not war torn and the only with gun culture.

where I live 90+% of the population dont even know where to find a gun and if people just get in a fist fight it sometimes makes the news, 

anyway theres no point in wasting my breathe theres no changing your mind but something needs to be done to he us culture of guns for this to stop happening.


no guns. lets use bows, and arrows



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bertlsenix on 14 December 2012

So sad - Can't even imagine how the parents feel right now.Probably the hardest loss you can experience in your life.

but...
USA - What do you expect if everyone has a gun there?

A :Hey i get candy and a M4 please...Im already 5 and have Call of Duty Experience!
B : Oh wow so mature - Please defend our country!

In our country you have such a hard time to get a weapon and then you get crap anyway...A knife is probably better.
Why is it so hard everywhere else on the world(1st world countries) to get them but not in the US?
Why is that country so horny for those things?
And in relation to gaming cause this is a gaming website - It shows it too in the taste of the US Gamers > Shooters over everything else.



arcane_chaos on 14 December 2012
Kasz216 said:
arcane_chaos said:
Kasz216 said:
arcane_chaos said:

the thing that saddens me is that in recent memory we've had
The Arizona shooting
Aurora Theater shotting
2 mall shootings
and now this

and yet no real talk about gun control/ban WTF!?

That would be bcause gun control/bans would be an illogical topic considering the science and statistics is against such an arguement.

and to bring it up, really just crass emotional arguement in the worst possible tatse... people who do should really be ashamed of themselves.


I would just like to see the conversation brought up not after we have a tragedy like this, it just pains me that we had a tragedy just like this during the election; the Aurora theater shooting, it became a hot topic for about a week or two and just vanished...

I don't know how old you are... but in general there used to be a pretty big gun debate.

It pretty much died away after pretty much all the research on the subject showed that guns availability really wasn't a factor in crimes in general, and surprisingly crime and violent crme showed a negative correlation with gun ownership.  (IE, more guns, less crimes, less murders.)

Which isn't really THAT suprising when you consider only like... 5% of guns are ever used in any kind of illegal activity.   Let alone a situation like a spree murder, where they are so rare, that you average like around 2 a year... in a country with a population as high as ours.

 

In general, violent crime seems to be caused by drugs and income disparity.

 

Now the real question is... what's up with the Mass Shootings NOW.  Gun laws haven't changed?  So why would you go there?   I'd think a better question would be... why have there been so many in one year?

 

I mean, it might just be population growth, might be something else... but that's a productive question to ask.

only 21.... interesting fact up brought up, I myself just learned that thanks to you, I myself am not calling for a gun ban, but I'd see to see better regualtions on hiw guns are sold, I can spek from expirience that one of my family members and a friend of mine have bothed served jail time for having and illegal fire-arm..I just want to know how are these guns being aquired so easily and what can we do about this...not that all crimes are done with illegal firearms though.



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Kasz216 on 14 December 2012

Also, I'm curious why they don't just put armed police officers in schools.

I could of swore my school had armed police officer.

Maybe there holster was empty though, never really cared about guns.



Sal.Paradise on 14 December 2012
Kasz216 said:
yum123 said:
killerzX said:

wow this is sad. my heart and prayers go out to these people. this kind of people just make me so freakin mad. i hate this.

yet another shooting happens in a gun free zone. how many of these shootings have to happen before people realize how unsafe these gun free zones are.

if just the school had an armed gaurd/teacher/faculty member, they may have been able to stop this senseless tragedy.


youve got to be kidding me. this is part the reason things like this happen predominantly in america. Guns are so embedded in your culture that they lead to things like this. Guns should be banned completely. if law abiders were armed there would probably be more dead from bullets flying everywhere. only an american would have that response

It really doesn't though.

They happen more often in the US, because the US is a bigger country.  Despite the oddity of so many happening at once... these things are very rare.  Therefore a country ten times bigger then most other countries is more likely going to have a mass killing.

There have been like... maybe 60 total in the last 30 years in the USA.  

For most countries... if it happens in their country once.  They'd have a higher per capita mass murder figure then us.

For example, just Brevik in Norway means that Norway has a MUCH higher per captia mass murder figure then the US does.  Even if you count all 60 in the US.

Which isn't to say Norway is a haven and breeding grounds for Mass killers.  Just that it's such a small number, it's silly to make any generalizing conclusions.

 

To blame it on America is to ignore the truth that these things are "seemingly" on the rise... everywhere really.   Hard to say though with such a low sample size.

You serious right now? You need me to fact check you?

http://www.schoolsecurity.org/trends/school_violence00-01.html

How does 77 in a decade sound?

 

Identified School-Related Violent Deaths:  2000-2001 School Year

Total Deaths:  31

Breakdown by Type:
Shooting:             14

 

Identified School-Related Violent Deaths:  2002-2003 School Year

Total Deaths:  16

Breakdown by Type:
Shooting:                3            

 

Identified School-Related Violent Deaths:  2004-2005 School Year

Total Deaths:  39

Breakdown by Type:
Shooting:                       24

 

 

Identified School-Related Violent Deaths:  2006-2007 School Year

Total Deaths:  32

Breakdown by Type:
Shooting:                    13

 

Identified School-Related Violent Deaths:  2007-2008 School Year

Total Deaths:  16

Breakdown by Type:
Shooting:                     8

 

Identified School-Related Violent Deaths:  2008-2009 School Year

Total Deaths:  13

Breakdown by Type:
Shooting:                     8

 

Identified School-Related Violent Deaths:  2009-2010 School Year

Total Deaths:  11

Breakdown by Type:
Shooting:                     7

 

Or these..



Buell Elementary School shooting Mount Morris Township, Michigan February 29 2000 1[citation needed]
Lake Worth Middle School shooting Lake Worth, Florida May 26 2000 1[citation needed]
University of Arkansas shooting Fayetteville, Arkansas August 28 2000 2[citation needed]
Santana High School shooting Santee, California March 5 2001 2[citation needed]
Granite Hills High School shooting El Cajon, California March 22 2001 0[citation needed]
Martin Luther King, Jr. High School shooting Manhattan, New York January 15 2002 0[citation needed]
Appalachian School of Law shooting Grundy, Virginia January 16 2002 3[citation needed]
John McDonogh High School shooting New Orleans, Louisiana April 14 2003 1[citation needed]
University of Arizona Nursing School shooting Tucson, Arizona October, 28 2002 4[citation needed]
Red Lion Area Junior High School shootings Red Lion, Pennsylvania April 24 2003 2[citation needed]
Case Western Reserve University shooting Cleveland, Ohio May 9 2003 1[citation needed]
Rocori High School shooting Cold Spring, Minnesota September 24 2003 2[citation needed]
Columbia High School shooting East Greenbush, New York February 9 2004 0[citation needed]
Fairleigh Dickinson University shooting Florham Park, New Jersey April 4 2004 2[citation needed]
Randallstown High School shooting Randallstown, Maryland May 7 2004 0[citation needed]
Red Lake Senior High School massacre Red Lake, Minnesota March 21 2005 8[citation needed]
Campbell County High School shooting Jacksboro, Tennessee November 8 2005 1[citation needed]
Pine Middle School shooting Reno, Nevada March 14 2006 0[citation needed]
Essex Elementary School shooting[62] Essex, Vermont August 24 2006 2
Orange High School shooting Hillsborough, North Carolina August 30 2006 1[citation needed]
Platte Canyon High School shooting Bailey, Colorado September 27 2006 2[citation needed]
Weston High School shooting Cazenovia, Wisconsin September 29 2006 2[citation needed]
Amish school shooting Nickel Mines, Pennsylvania October 2 2006 6[citation needed]
Henry Foss High School shooting Tacoma, Washington January 3 2007 1[citation needed]
Herbert Henry Dow High School Midland, Michigan March 8 2007 1[citation needed]
University of North Carolina at Greensboro Greensboro, North Carolina March 24 2007 0 The victim, Stephen Cobb, was shot by Brian Patrick Martin when an argument about a potential drug deal that went bad.[63]
University of Washington shooting Seattle, Washington April 2 2007 2[citation needed]
Virginia Tech massacre Blacksburg, Virginia April 16 2007 32[citation needed]
Delaware State University shooting Dover, Delaware September 21 2007 1[citation needed]
SuccessTech Academy shooting Cleveland, Ohio October 10 2007 1[citation needed]
Louisiana Technical College shooting Baton Rouge, Louisiana February 8 2008 3[citation needed]
Mitchell High School shooting Memphis, Tennessee February 11 2008 0[citation needed]
E.O. Green School shooting Oxnard, California February 12 2008 1[citation needed]
Northern Illinois University massacre DeKalb, Illinois February 14 2008 6[citation needed]
Davidson High School Shooting Mobile, Alabama March 9 2008 1[citation needed]
Central High School shooting Knoxville, Tennessee August 21 2008 1[citation needed]
Henry Ford High School shooting Detroit, Michigan October 16 2008 1[citation needed]
2008 University of Central Arkansas shootings Conway, Arkansas October 27 2008 2[citation needed]
Dillard High School shooting Fort Lauderdale, Florida November 12 2008 1[citation needed]
Henry Ford Community College shooting Dearborn, Michigan April 10 2009 2[citation needed]
Hampton University Hampton, Virginia April 26 2009 0[citation needed]
Covina High School shooting Covina, California April 30 2009 0[64]
Wesleyan University1 Middletown, Connecticut May 1 2009 1
Canandaigua Academy shooting Canandaigua, New York May 5 2009 1[citation needed]
Harvard University Cambridge, Massachusetts May 18 2009 1 Justin Cosby, 21, was shot sometime before 5 p.m. Monday in J-Entry of Kirkland House. The Harvard University Police responded at approximately 4:48 p.m., and Cosby was taken to Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, where he died [65]
Larose-Cut Off Middle School shooting Larose, Louisiana May 18 2009 1[citation needed]
Skyline College shooting San Bruno, California September 2 2009 0[citation needed]
Atlanta University Center Atlanta, Georgia September 3 2009 1 Sophomore Jasmine Lynn was shot around 12:30 a.m. Thursday September 3, 2009 on James P. Brawley Drive in the Atlanta University Center, according to the Fulton County Medical Examiner’s office.[66]
Deer Valley High School shooting Antioch, California September 16 2009 0[citation needed]
Northern Virginia Community College Woodbridge, Virginia December 8 2009 0[citation needed]
Discovery Middle School Madison, Alabama February 5 2010 1[67]
University of Alabama in Huntsville Huntsville, Alabama February 12 2010 3[68]
Deer Creek Middle School Littleton, Colorado February 23 2010 0[69]
Birney Elementary School Tacoma, Washington February 26 2010 1[70]
Ohio State University Columbus, Ohio March 9 2010 2[71]
Belleville Township HS East Belleville, Illinois August 17 2010 1[72]
University of Texas at Austin Austin, Texas September 28 2010 1[73]
Alisal High School Salinas, California October 1 2010 1[74][75]
Mid-Atlantic Christian University Elizabeth City, North Carolina October 3 2010 1[76]
Kelly Elementary School Carlsbad, California October 8 2010 2 (wounded)[77][78]
Marinette High School Marinette, Wisconsin November 29 2010 1[79]
Millard South High School shooting Omaha, Nebraska, United States January 5 2011 2[80]
Martinsville West Middle School Martinsville, Indiana March 25 2011 0[81]
Worthing High School Houston, Texas March 30 2011 1[82]
Ross Elementary School Houston, Texas April 19 2011 0[83]
San Jose State University San Jose, California May 10 2011 3[84]
Pearl City Middle School Pearl City, Hawaii May 23 2011 1[85]
Cape Fear High School shooting Fayetteville, North Carolina October 24 2011 0[86]
2011 Virginia Tech shooting Blacksburg, Virginia December 8 2011 2 [87]
Walpole Elementary School Walpole, New Hampshire February 10 2012 1 (injury) [88]
Chardon High School shooting Chardon, Ohio February 27 2012 3[citation needed]
Oikos University shooting Oakland, California April 2 2012 7[citation needed]
Perry Hall High School Perry Hall, Maryland August 27 2012 1 (injury)[citation needed]
Normal Community High School Normal, Illinois September 7 2012 0[citation needed]
Stillwater Junior High School Stillwater, Oklahoma September 26 2012 1 (suicide)[citation needed]
Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting Newtown, Connecticut December 14 2012 27

 

60 in 30 years? 

 

 



Lafiel on 14 December 2012
Kasz216 said:
Also, I'm curious why they don't just put armed police officers in schools.

I could of swore my school had armed police officer.

Maybe there holster was empty though, never really cared about guns.

wouldn't that be "big government", though? better to let a private corporation handle that



Kasz216 on 14 December 2012
 


Those aren't mass spree killings.

Those are total murders that happened to happen at a school.  That's a whole different and much more common thing.  (everywhere.)

 

You aren't fact checking so much as fact twisting/fabricating.

 

Crimes committed at a school... not really the same thing.



Sal.Paradise on 14 December 2012
Kasz216 said:
 


Those aren't mass spree killings.

Those are total murders that happened to happen at a school.  That's a whole different and much more common thing.  (everywhere.)

 

You aren't fact checking so much as fact twisting/fabricating.


See edit. Table of recent shootings for you. 

 

(because  I can't be bothered to look through a list of 77 school-related shootings to sort out those that fit the narrow criteria)