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Forums - General Discussion - Elementary School Shooting Leaves 27 Dead(20 children)(Shooter son of teacher)

Marks said:

Would you really feel good knowing only the government and criminals have guns? Hey let's even pretend criminals don't have guns. Would you feel good about only the government having guns? You know that disarming citizens is always the first step towards a genocide. Seriously, look at any genocide in history, it happened where citizens have no right to own guns. Do you think the holocaust would have happened if the citizens of Germany were as well armed as America? Hell the Japanese even made the smart decision not to invade the American mainland in WWII because "there would be a rifle behind ever blade of grass" as quoted by a Japanese naval commander. 

Guns are a needed. Unless every single gun in the world is destroyed, then I want a gun. I don't want to be left defenseless when I know other people out there have them and I don't. 

You're missing my point and overreacting. I'm not saying that we should ban guns or "disarm" citizens, all I'm saying is we need to enforce gun laws more strictly. Because even though we do have many gun laws, they aren't being enforced properly. Regardless, since my previous post I've taken a step back and realized that gun laws aren't the biggest cause (though they do play a factor), it's our health care system and our ignorance (or lack of interest) towards detecting and treating people with mental illnesses until they do something tragic like this.



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Cirio said:
Marks said:

Would you really feel good knowing only the government and criminals have guns? Hey let's even pretend criminals don't have guns. Would you feel good about only the government having guns? You know that disarming citizens is always the first step towards a genocide. Seriously, look at any genocide in history, it happened where citizens have no right to own guns. Do you think the holocaust would have happened if the citizens of Germany were as well armed as America? Hell the Japanese even made the smart decision not to invade the American mainland in WWII because "there would be a rifle behind ever blade of grass" as quoted by a Japanese naval commander. 

Guns are a needed. Unless every single gun in the world is destroyed, then I want a gun. I don't want to be left defenseless when I know other people out there have them and I don't. 

You're missing my point and overreacting. I'm not saying that we should ban guns or "disarm" citizens, all I'm saying is we need to enforce gun laws more strictly. Because even though we do have many gun laws, they aren't being enforced properly. Regardless, since my previous post I've taken a step back and realized that gun laws aren't the biggest cause (though they do play a factor), it's our health care system and our ignorance (or lack of interest) towards detecting and treating people with mental illnesses until they do something tragic like this.


Yes, I definitely agree with your last sentence. We need to do more to deal with the mentally ill. That is the root cause of this shooting. If he didn't have a gun, I can't deny there would have been much less damage, but he still could have killed or hurt many people with a knife, baseball bat, hammer, etc. No matter what he would have gone on some kind of rampage, so I agree we need to deal with ill people before they have the chance to go crazy. 



mai said:

mrstickball said:

Mai, you're from Russia, right?

Tell me: Why does your government restrict firearm ownership far greater than my country, yet your homicide rate is much higher than my country?

Much higher is x1.5 higher as per last report with trend being down and you're being up, though even that undecisisve given how it's reported over here (including unsuccessful attempts at murder, dead body with undecesive cause of death = one homocide unless proven otherewise etc., hence the skewed data complain from UN expert). It certainly was way higher decade ago, but given the turmoil of the 90s it certainly went down by a huge margin, so I'm surprised how low the rate as of now. Why? The social causes of course. I though I've addressed that in my posts, that there're a lot of other reasons for rates be high or low. And restricts is overestimation, 10% have guns. Hell, I'm a gun owner :D though not an avid one, had it enough in the army.

As I said there're arguments to support contradictory opinions, Sweden and Uruguay -- comparable gun ownership (and it's high), but the latter is way higher in homicide rate, Japan and Malaysia -- comparable gun ownership (very low), the latter is way higher in homicide rates etc.

//Still trying to attack me geographically, aren't you? ;)


What about Switzerland? 3rd highest gun ownership in the world (after USA and Yemen I believe) but very low in gun homocide. 1 gun homocide per 200,000 people according to a quick Wiki search. Obviously not as low as Great Britain, France, etc. but considering they have 8x more guns per capita than Britain it kinda defeats the guns = crime argument. 



Gun control has NOTHING to do with this.

 

 

Well worth the read - COLUMBINE STUDENT'S FATHER 12 YEARS LATER !! Guess our national leaders didn't expect this. On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee. What he s

aid to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful.

They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness.. The following is a portion of the transcript:

"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good &evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.

"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart.

"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent

I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy -- it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best.

Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
Your words are empty air.
You've stripped away our heritage,
You've outlawed simple prayer.
Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere,
And ask the question "Why?"
You regulate restrictive laws,
Through legislative creed.
And yet you fail to understand,
That God is what we need!

"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. 
What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. 
Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. 

"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. 
To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA -- I give to you a sincere challenge.. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone! 
My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!"
- Darrell Scott 
Do what the media did not - - let the nation hear this man's speech. Please send this oout to everyone you can!