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Forums - Gaming - Marcus Beer speaks for gamers and questions validity of paying for Xbox Live it in front of Michael Pachter

UltimateUnknown on 12 November 2012

I think the whole ad thing took over the real question Marcus asked.

Why exactly are people paying for basic online gaming on Live? Lets say for a second we take out all the fluff: smooth dashboard, intuitive UI, weekly offers, party chat, apps and all MS gave us was the ability to play online as part of the free silver subscription. Would Gold still have sold just as well as it did now?

I personally think not. MS only have this many subscribers because they made the online gaming part premium (which is free on every other platform). Personally this gen I got an xbox 360, but I realised that I don't need to be paying £35 a year for all the fluff they are giving me. All I care is to be able to connect online to play MP and since I mostly go solo it really doesn't matter what the other connectivity options are present. I think Sony got it right with the PSN/PSN Plus subscription model and if they continue that to next gen then I'll be switching right back to Sony.



 

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Capulous on 12 November 2012

I have no problem with MS having ads on the dashboard. Xbox LIVE Dashboard ads are small and do not do anything to interfere with my gaming experience. The ads do not even play sounds unless you scroll over it or click on it to play. Some of these ads even offer you free avatar items, themes, and for some game advertisements, I believe you get some free minor add ons as well.



S.T.A.G.E. on 12 November 2012
UltimateUnknown said:
I think the whole ad thing took over the real question Marcus asked.

Why exactly are people paying for basic online gaming on Live? Lets say for a second we take out all the fluff: smooth dashboard, intuitive UI, weekly offers, party chat, apps and all MS gave us was the ability to play online as part of the free silver subscription. Would Gold still have sold just as well as it did now?

I personally think not. MS only have this many subscribers because they made the online gaming part premium (which is free on every other platform). Personally this gen I got an xbox 360, but I realised that I don't need to be paying £35 a year for all the fluff they are giving me. All I care is to be able to connect online to play MP and since I mostly go solo it really doesn't matter what the other connectivity options are present. I think Sony got it right with the PSN/PSN Plus subscription model and if they continue that to next gen then I'll be switching right back to Sony.


This is what it will come down to next gen.



outlawauron on 12 November 2012
slowmo said:
outlawauron said:
I don't know why people try and defend Live costing money every month. It's not a good deal and it's stupid that Microsoft charges for basic functionality.


Lets think, perhaps it's because it's the only business model that makes sense.  Everyone seems to forget that the PC model doesn't work on consoles as you're reliant upon the software company providing dedicated servers and also others taking up hosting duties.  This is not going to work on consoles so Microsoft have to bear the brunt of the infrastructure cost for Live.  Now you can handle this in several ways, you can get the money up front for online by adding to the console price, you can overcharge on content you provide with your online service or you can run it at a massive cost to the company.  You can bet right now Sony wished they had started charging at the start of the gen.

The difference between Microsoft and Sony is that one company entered this generation with a sound business model and as largely had a successful strategy, while the other had a appalling business model that has bled the company dry of profits.  PSN has also spent most of the gen as a inferior service to Live too might I add.  Plus the small fact that due to better infrastructure and I'm sure more proactive maintenence of their servers, Microsoft have never had long term outages like Sony have had on more than one occasion.  Perhaps because Microsoft invest the money they've taken in fees into better management of their network.

At the end of the day if you hate it so much I have to question how you can judge the value in the service, it's clear you've not used it for a long time.  You're in for a massive shock next gen when Sony start charging...

Oh sure, it makes business sense. But we're talking as shareholders, but as gamers. The second half of your post is a lot of conjecture and opinion. While, PSN does not have as many apps (non-game related), it accomplishes every core feature XBL does and all for zero cost to yourself. If there were some sort of advantage to having Gold in terms of discounts or free downloads (like PSN Plus), then I don't think I'd have a reason to complain.



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dahuman on 12 November 2012
DirtyP2002 said:
dahuman said:
DirtyP2002 said:
dahuman said:
Argh_College said:
I will pay for Xbox Live forever! Best service ever imo.

Halo 4 is a black on Live.


Steam, free, does everything XBL does and much more.

Not sure where Halo 4 came from but it's a pretty good game for sure.


Gaming on steam is a pain in the *** comapred to XBL.

It does less actually. Well it does more if you count hackers / cheaters, but less if you count features. It has good deals every now and then, but that is it.


I love how people would post and state nothing, it's a pain in the ass because? It does less based on your experience of? cheating is associated to Steam and not the game itself made by other companies due to(there is totally no hacking and cheating on other platforms?)? It has good deals every week btw.

I love baseless replies. Such high intelligence lol....

 

PS: I just noticed you are from Germany, in that case, I don't know as much, Steam is basically God status in North America but it might differ in your case :)


I don't feel like arguing, so here are just some points:

  • Cheaters, there are more cheaters on Steam than on XBL. If you get caught you are banned from the service. If you get caught on steam you are banned from one server of one game.
  • Messenger integration - no explanation needed.
  • Voice Chat integration, works perfectly fine on XBL. You need to download another software like TS on steam and there is no integration at all. Some players are using different software like vent.
  • Customer Service, this is basically unknown on steam. MS customer service works fine.
  • App integration, XBL offers so much more Apps now and they are all very well integrated. Steam can't do anything like that.
  • Achievements are way better on XBL than on Steam.
  • Avatars
  • Community feeling, XBL is way more community friendly than Steam
  • Security, XBL is more secure than Steam.

That were just some points that matter to me. I really like Steam Deals though. That is where steam > XBL IMO. I hope some Black Friday deals make their way to Germany as well.

Must be a Germany thing, pretty much all the things you listed are false, I can't comment on the customer service part because we live in different countries, the rest must all be in an alternate dimension.



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dahuman on 12 November 2012
Jazz2K said:
dahuman said:
Jazz2K said:


I agree I jumped to conclusions... but after spending some time on forums and especially here, anything MS gets trashed so much by fans of other consoles it's difficult to know whos' who... What I hate the most is when people who keep bragging false things about MS just because it seems to be popular on the internet. People keep saying adds on the dashboard are annoying yep those who actualy have an Xbox beg to differ. Most of those adds are gaming/movie/music related when you highlight specific tabs. When you don't own the Xbox and you hear about adds being on the dashboard you don't know what's going on and you imagine all kinds of BS.

About Kinect... I would expect uninformed gamers to not know how devices work and it's ok. Not knowing isn't a bad thing, not willing to know in order to keep spreading BS is bad though. Kinect works as intended. Devs are the ones who will make it work not the otherway around. I don't see people complain about the controller when devs put bad contol mechanics in games. Some devs nail it while other don't. Same about consoles, if both are about the same, the rest is up to devs and their budget. Gamers might want to ignore this, but people in the industry shouldn't. Why would I listen to someone in the industry that doesn't know any of this or act as is? 

The thing about Kinect is that they had to keep cost down, but then the 360 doesn't really have a good room for it on the processing front, it works great on a decent PC, but I've always said that the current XBOX is not good enough for the current Kinect. These are the things they need to fix for the next one, 1.) make sure there is little delay as possible for the next iteration. 2.) able to pick up more people(at least 4+) and know who they all are on the screen(more processing power and better software) 3.) Make it with different lenses so it works in smaller rooms and is able to pick up motion at a closer proximity.

Otherwise it's just an even worse piece of shit than the Wiimote+/PS Move technology.

The whole ads thing, people might call me crazy for this, but I'm actually an IGN Prime member.(that's how I get into a lot of betas lol, so leave me alone :P ) Now, they literally give you an option to disable ads in your Prime options, I'm a paying member, therefore I have the choice of either displaying the ad or go without, I of course disabled it. Lets look at the XBL side, where is my option to do so if I'm a Gold member? I can understand them showing ads all the time to people who are not paying, but where is the option to turn it off if I don't want to see it as a paying member? That's something to think about isn't it? >=)

Hmm... Kinect isn't the holy grail. It has it's limits and most of those limits come from devs imagination/ability to operate it. I agree about the rest, it's not that precise but so was the Wiimote and it didn't prevent some devs from making great games.

Being able to block ads, I don't know about this. Maybe it's because I've work in marketing for so long, I don't think people should be able to block ads. What I think though is that people shouldn't be flooded by ads averywhere and especially if most of them aren't related to topics or prevent user from using their services for a brief time.

Some ads on VGChartz are extremely annoying. You know those that get bigger and make everything move? Or those ads on sites that have sound and you can't find them, or those popups... the should avoidable yes. Those on XBL I don't know, so many of them are related to topics it's like they're not ads but features. I understand though that some people don't like ads and want to remove them all, maybe the option to remove them should be there, I wouldn't use it on XBL though.


I understand that if you work in the marketing field, ads are the most important things to generate that revenu, I'm in a totally different field though, and they just seem intrusive unless I'm using the service without paying a premium, consumers like to have a choice if they are shelling money out. The problems I see with Kinect are more on the technical front rather than devs having the ability to make good games on it, the actual input method is a good idea, but the execution based on the hardware is crappy, and that's why I listed the needed improvements.



dahuman on 12 November 2012
the2real4mafol said:
DirtyP2002 said:


I don't feel like arguing, so here are just some points:

  • Cheaters, there are more cheaters on Steam than on XBL. If you get caught you are banned from the service. If you get caught on steam you are banned from one server of one game.~ Steam is based on the community rather than the games and Microsoft seems to be strict on cheating anyway 
  • Messenger integration - no explanation needed.~ Ever heard of skype?
  • Voice Chat integration, works perfectly fine on XBL. You need to download another software like TS on steam and there is no integration at all. Some players are using different software like vent.~ Skype again
  • Customer Service, this is basically unknown on steam. MS customer service works fine.~ That's because valve is only offering a service, while microsoft offer hardware and service. The PC hardware has little to do with steam.
  • App integration, XBL offers so much more Apps now and they are all very well integrated. Steam can't do anything like that.~ If you didn't know steam is starting to sell PC software now, it doesn't need apps, that's what the internet browser is for
  • Achievements are way better on XBL than on Steam.~ Steam doesn't take achievements very seriously like playstation or xbox does
  • Avatars~ I'll let you have that one, Xbox does have some good avatars out there (not worth paying xbox live for though)
  • Community feeling, XBL is way more community friendly than Steam~ the community on steam depends on what you play really, while on Xbox, the community is more about you and your friends really
  • Security, XBL is more secure than Steam.~ I agree, xbox live has decent security
Xbox 360 is good as it's really a all in one machine, but the subscription cost shouldn't be there at all

That were just some points that matter to me. I really like Steam Deals though. That is where steam > XBL IMO. I hope some Black Friday deals make their way to Germany as well.



Is the Euro version of Steam different or something? Valve does perma ban if the games use VAC as anti cheating, but that's a publisher's choice, not Valve's. You don't need Skype for messenger, Steam has a messenger and fully integrated group voice chat. Service must be a per country thing, in the US, the service is great and responsive. Are people seriously saying that computers don't have applications? ^^;; holy shit...... not to mention most new Steam games all come with achievements and the player base on PC in the US are pretty mature and friendly for the most part. I also have the freedom to change my avatar to whatever I want o_O; I'm really confused, Steam must really suck outside of America or something.



dahuman on 12 November 2012

Hold on, before we continue the discussion of Steam, when was the last time you guys used it? Mine is like open right now! I'm confused as hell because unless I'm using something completely different, some people are just bull shitting out the ass.



S.T.A.G.E. on 12 November 2012
dahuman said:
the2real4mafol said:
DirtyP2002 said:


I don't feel like arguing, so here are just some points:

  • Cheaters, there are more cheaters on Steam than on XBL. If you get caught you are banned from the service. If you get caught on steam you are banned from one server of one game.~ Steam is based on the community rather than the games and Microsoft seems to be strict on cheating anyway 
  • Messenger integration - no explanation needed.~ Ever heard of skype?
  • Voice Chat integration, works perfectly fine on XBL. You need to download another software like TS on steam and there is no integration at all. Some players are using different software like vent.~ Skype again
  • Customer Service, this is basically unknown on steam. MS customer service works fine.~ That's because valve is only offering a service, while microsoft offer hardware and service. The PC hardware has little to do with steam.
  • App integration, XBL offers so much more Apps now and they are all very well integrated. Steam can't do anything like that.~ If you didn't know steam is starting to sell PC software now, it doesn't need apps, that's what the internet browser is for
  • Achievements are way better on XBL than on Steam.~ Steam doesn't take achievements very seriously like playstation or xbox does
  • Avatars~ I'll let you have that one, Xbox does have some good avatars out there (not worth paying xbox live for though)
  • Community feeling, XBL is way more community friendly than Steam~ the community on steam depends on what you play really, while on Xbox, the community is more about you and your friends really
  • Security, XBL is more secure than Steam.~ I agree, xbox live has decent security
Xbox 360 is good as it's really a all in one machine, but the subscription cost shouldn't be there at all

That were just some points that matter to me. I really like Steam Deals though. That is where steam > XBL IMO. I hope some Black Friday deals make their way to Germany as well.



Is the Euro version of Steam different or something? Valve does perma ban if the games use VAC as anti cheating, but that's a publisher's choice, not Valve's. You don't need Skype for messenger, Steam has a messenger and fully integrated group voice chat. Service must be a per country thing, in the US, the service is great and responsive. Are people seriously saying that computers don't have applications? ^^;; holy shit...... not to mention most new Steam games all come with achievements and the player base on PC in the US are pretty mature and friendly for the most part. I also have the freedom to change my avatar to whatever I want o_O; I'm really confused, Steam must really suck outside of America or something.



They attack Steam yet need to acknowledge the fact that Xbox Lives existence is a carbon copy of PC online gaming streamlined for the masses. The largest innovations are on PC for multimedia expansion. I connect my laptop to my TV and I dont need cable.



hollabackenny on 12 November 2012

There's this really simple explanation that companies LOVE to make profit. That's why they exist. Sure, as a gamer, I can ACT like I get really upset about an advertisement in the bottom right corner of my screen that doesn't actually play unless I highlight it. But, really, who cares? This is why Microsoft will always be around, because they'll always be making money. Xbox Live works perfectly for me, I never have connection problems and I can very easily avoid any advertisements. If gamers really needed someone to speak for them, I'm sure they'd just not pay for Xbox Live anymore. Actions do speak louder than words after all.