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Forums - Gaming - Silicon Knights ordered to recall and destroy all unsold copies of Too Human, X-Men Destiny, more

Thanks Zarx. SK deserves what they've gotten then.



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zarx said:
theRepublic said:

You can do that by winning the origial lawsuit.

SK licensed the UE3 engine for their games.

That's  the issue, SK licensed UE3, then droped the license but kept using the code. They decided UE3 wasn't good enough so they had to "write their own engine" and ditched the UE3 license. Then after the game bombed they decided to sue Epic for not putting enough resources into supporting UE3. 

So then during the procedings Epic got the source code to SK's source code and proved that SK had removed all the copyright notices etc, but kept huge chunks of UE3 code without paying for it. So Epic could prove that SK had in fact used UE3 for their games and hadn't had to create a new engine from scratch like they claimed. If they did not Countersue then it would set the precedent that devs could use their code after they had stopped paying the license, so they really had no choice. 

So really SK stole the code and didn't pay for it, soEpic countersued. And the judge decided that they had to get rid of all the code and products containing the code that they didn't pay for. 

After reading a bunch of shitty incomplete articles, I think I might have figured it out.  SK licensed the UE3 engine for future games, including Too Human.  Epic missed the deadline on providing the complete engine, and never provided promised features.  SK had to modify the engine to get it working as they needed with Too Human.  This is legal under the licensing agreement, and becomes the property of SK.  However, Epic's original parts of the code remain Epic's property.  SK stupidly decided to stop paying licensing fees, which is where they really got themselves in trouble.  That is what ended up losing them the lawsuit.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

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ECM said:
theRepublic said:
ECM said:
theRepublic said:
ECM said:
theRepublic said:
Wow, Epic are dicks.

Err, SK filed suit against Epic, so I'm not sure how they're being "dicks", per se, unless the suggestion is that protecting their interests=dicks.

(I'm no fan of Epic's graphics arms race of industry doom, but they are hardly to blame for SK's self-inflicted wounds.)

Epic filed a countersuit.

I would really like to know how in the world SK, "breached their Unreal license agreement, misappropriated Epic's trade secrets and infringed Epic's copyrights in the Unreal Engine 3 code."

Filing a countersuit would imply protecting your interests. (This wouldn't be an issue at all, most likely, if SK didn't go after Epic in the first place.)

And how? Probably because the court found that they had used chunks of UE3 code in their engine--or did something in their engine that looked exactly like how UE3 implements it--intentionally or otherwise.

You can do that by winning the origial lawsuit.

SK licensed the UE3 engine for their games.

So your argument seems to be: fork over tons of cash to defend against what you perceive to be a frivolous lawsuit and just sorta lie there and take it? That's an interesting POV, but I'm prety sure that if someone sued me for dubious reasons, I wouldn't be nearly as sanguine as you are about it, especially if, in discovery, I noticed a whole bunch of my IP in the product(s) the company is suing me over. (After all, Too Human et al shoudln't have had a single shred of UE3 code in them since they, allegedly, were using their own tech.)

SK (read: Dyak) gambled and lost, big time--they have no one to blame for their current circumstances but themselves.

No, becasue they can recoup legal costs without filing a counter suit.  That wouldn't just be laying there and taking it.

And see my previous post.



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miz1q2w3e said:
omg they're making them delete the source code?! It's painful just reading it x_x

They should just troll them and made a back up on icloud :D.



theRepublic said:
zarx said:
theRepublic said:

You can do that by winning the origial lawsuit.

SK licensed the UE3 engine for their games.

That's  the issue, SK licensed UE3, then droped the license but kept using the code. They decided UE3 wasn't good enough so they had to "write their own engine" and ditched the UE3 license. Then after the game bombed they decided to sue Epic for not putting enough resources into supporting UE3. 

So then during the procedings Epic got the source code to SK's source code and proved that SK had removed all the copyright notices etc, but kept huge chunks of UE3 code without paying for it. So Epic could prove that SK had in fact used UE3 for their games and hadn't had to create a new engine from scratch like they claimed. If they did not Countersue then it would set the precedent that devs could use their code after they had stopped paying the license, so they really had no choice. 

So really SK stole the code and didn't pay for it, soEpic countersued. And the judge decided that they had to get rid of all the code and products containing the code that they didn't pay for. 

After reading a bunch of shitty incomplete articles, I think I might have figured it out.  SK licensed the UE3 engine for future games, including Too Human.  Epic missed the deadline on providing the complete engine, and never provided promised features.  SK had to modify the engine to get it working as they needed with Too Human.  This is legal under the licensing agreement, and becomes the property of SK.  However, Epic's original parts of the code remain Epic's property.  SK stupidly decided to stop paying licensing fees, which is where they really got themselves in trouble.  That is what ended up losing them the lawsuit.


The whole broken engine is what i dont understand.  Tons of other developers were using unreal engine at the time without any problems.  Silicon Knights were just so incompetent that they couldnt figure it out.



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gergroy said:
theRepublic said:
zarx said:
theRepublic said:

You can do that by winning the origial lawsuit.

SK licensed the UE3 engine for their games.

That's  the issue, SK licensed UE3, then droped the license but kept using the code. They decided UE3 wasn't good enough so they had to "write their own engine" and ditched the UE3 license. Then after the game bombed they decided to sue Epic for not putting enough resources into supporting UE3. 

So then during the procedings Epic got the source code to SK's source code and proved that SK had removed all the copyright notices etc, but kept huge chunks of UE3 code without paying for it. So Epic could prove that SK had in fact used UE3 for their games and hadn't had to create a new engine from scratch like they claimed. If they did not Countersue then it would set the precedent that devs could use their code after they had stopped paying the license, so they really had no choice. 

So really SK stole the code and didn't pay for it, soEpic countersued. And the judge decided that they had to get rid of all the code and products containing the code that they didn't pay for. 

After reading a bunch of shitty incomplete articles, I think I might have figured it out.  SK licensed the UE3 engine for future games, including Too Human.  Epic missed the deadline on providing the complete engine, and never provided promised features.  SK had to modify the engine to get it working as they needed with Too Human.  This is legal under the licensing agreement, and becomes the property of SK.  However, Epic's original parts of the code remain Epic's property.  SK stupidly decided to stop paying licensing fees, which is where they really got themselves in trouble.  That is what ended up losing them the lawsuit.


The whole broken engine is what i dont understand.  Tons of other developers were using unreal engine at the time without any problems.  Silicon Knights were just so incompetent that they couldnt figure it out.

That's not true most third party devs had technical issues in their first UE3 games. The PS3 was hit hardest and some games were ended up cancelled altogether.



Darc Requiem said:
gergroy said:
theRepublic said:

After reading a bunch of shitty incomplete articles, I think I might have figured it out.  SK licensed the UE3 engine for future games, including Too Human.  Epic missed the deadline on providing the complete engine, and never provided promised features.  SK had to modify the engine to get it working as they needed with Too Human.  This is legal under the licensing agreement, and becomes the property of SK.  However, Epic's original parts of the code remain Epic's property.  SK stupidly decided to stop paying licensing fees, which is where they really got themselves in trouble.  That is what ended up losing them the lawsuit.


The whole broken engine is what i dont understand.  Tons of other developers were using unreal engine at the time without any problems.  Silicon Knights were just so incompetent that they couldnt figure it out.

That's not true most third party devs had technical issues in their first UE3 games. The PS3 was hit hardest and some games were ended up cancelled altogether.

Like who?  Ignoring PS3 all together since this is an Xbox 360 only game, who are you talking about?  The Unreal engine has always worked better on the 360, so that is what I don't understand about this.  Games were coming out right and left using the unreal engine WAY before Too Human came out.  

Silicon Knights wasn't saying that the engine had some technical issues, they were saying it didn't work at all.  How can Silicon Knights not get it to work at all when all these other developers are releasing games using the engine without any problems?  



Mass Effect 1, Lost Odyssey, and The Last Remnant are three games I own off the top of my head that have technical issues.



Lost Odyssey didn't have technical issues, the Japanese devs were using an engine with all support in English. Game doesn't look too impressive but there's very little bugs in the game.



darkknightkryta said:
Lost Odyssey didn't have technical issues, the Japanese devs were using an engine with all support in English. Game doesn't look too impressive but there's very little bugs in the game.


The weird random frame drops at the start of battle weren't a technical issue for you?