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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Silicon Knights ordered to recall and destroy all unsold copies of Too Human, X-Men Destiny, more

HappySqurriel said:
ECM said:
Working for/with Nintendo is the game dev equivalent of the Madden curse.


With companies like Rare and Silicon Knights there is no curse involved ...

Being a second party developer for Nintendo meant that these companies had much greater access to technical and creative resources, and had a budget that was (pretty much) unlimited as long as they ended up producing a quality game. Games like Too Human could have probably been "saved" had a company like Nintendo been willing to delay them for a year, and give them the support of high quality designers to "fix" their issues. No third party publisher would ever agree to that though ...

That should have read *after working for/with* Nintendo, which I thought was self-evident.



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Wow, Epic are dicks.



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theRepublic said:
Wow, Epic are dicks.

Err, SK filed suit against Epic, so I'm not sure how they're being "dicks", per se, unless the suggestion is that protecting their interests=dicks.

(I'm no fan of Epic's graphics arms race of industry doom, but they are hardly to blame for SK's self-inflicted wounds.)



ECM said:
theRepublic said:
Wow, Epic are dicks.

Err, SK filed suit against Epic, so I'm not sure how they're being "dicks", per se, unless the suggestion is that protecting their interests=dicks.

(I'm no fan of Epic's graphics arms race of industry doom, but they are hardly to blame for SK's self-inflicted wounds.)

Epic filed a countersuit.

I would really like to know how in the world SK, "breached their Unreal license agreement, misappropriated Epic's trade secrets and infringed Epic's copyrights in the Unreal Engine 3 code."



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
Switch - The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (2019)
Switch - Bastion (2011/2018)
3DS - Star Fox 64 3D (2011)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Wii U - Darksiders: Warmastered Edition (2010/2017)
Mobile - The Simpson's Tapped Out and Yugioh Duel Links
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)

Am I missing something. I thought the whole reason SK sued Epic was because they had to create their own engine due to issues with UE3? I thought Too Human was on their own engine.



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theRepublic said:
ECM said:
theRepublic said:
Wow, Epic are dicks.

Err, SK filed suit against Epic, so I'm not sure how they're being "dicks", per se, unless the suggestion is that protecting their interests=dicks.

(I'm no fan of Epic's graphics arms race of industry doom, but they are hardly to blame for SK's self-inflicted wounds.)

Epic filed a countersuit.

I would really like to know how in the world SK, "breached their Unreal license agreement, misappropriated Epic's trade secrets and infringed Epic's copyrights in the Unreal Engine 3 code."

Filing a countersuit would imply protecting your interests. (This wouldn't be an issue at all, most likely, if SK didn't go after Epic in the first place.)

And how? Probably because the court found that they had used chunks of UE3 code in their engine--or did something in their engine that looked exactly like how UE3 implements it--intentionally or otherwise.



ECM said:
theRepublic said:
ECM said:
theRepublic said:
Wow, Epic are dicks.

Err, SK filed suit against Epic, so I'm not sure how they're being "dicks", per se, unless the suggestion is that protecting their interests=dicks.

(I'm no fan of Epic's graphics arms race of industry doom, but they are hardly to blame for SK's self-inflicted wounds.)

Epic filed a countersuit.

I would really like to know how in the world SK, "breached their Unreal license agreement, misappropriated Epic's trade secrets and infringed Epic's copyrights in the Unreal Engine 3 code."

Filing a countersuit would imply protecting your interests. (This wouldn't be an issue at all, most likely, if SK didn't go after Epic in the first place.)

And how? Probably because the court found that they had used chunks of UE3 code in their engine--or did something in their engine that looked exactly like how UE3 implements it--intentionally or otherwise.

You can do that by winning the origial lawsuit.

SK licensed the UE3 engine for their games.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
Switch - The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (2019)
Switch - Bastion (2011/2018)
3DS - Star Fox 64 3D (2011)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Wii U - Darksiders: Warmastered Edition (2010/2017)
Mobile - The Simpson's Tapped Out and Yugioh Duel Links
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)

theRepublic said:
ECM said:
theRepublic said:
ECM said:
theRepublic said:
Wow, Epic are dicks.

Err, SK filed suit against Epic, so I'm not sure how they're being "dicks", per se, unless the suggestion is that protecting their interests=dicks.

(I'm no fan of Epic's graphics arms race of industry doom, but they are hardly to blame for SK's self-inflicted wounds.)

Epic filed a countersuit.

I would really like to know how in the world SK, "breached their Unreal license agreement, misappropriated Epic's trade secrets and infringed Epic's copyrights in the Unreal Engine 3 code."

Filing a countersuit would imply protecting your interests. (This wouldn't be an issue at all, most likely, if SK didn't go after Epic in the first place.)

And how? Probably because the court found that they had used chunks of UE3 code in their engine--or did something in their engine that looked exactly like how UE3 implements it--intentionally or otherwise.

You can do that by winning the origial lawsuit.

SK licensed the UE3 engine for their games.

So your argument seems to be: fork over tons of cash to defend against what you perceive to be a frivolous lawsuit and just sorta lie there and take it? That's an interesting POV, but I'm prety sure that if someone sued me for dubious reasons, I wouldn't be nearly as sanguine as you are about it, especially if, in discovery, I noticed a whole bunch of my IP in the product(s) the company is suing me over. (After all, Too Human et al shoudln't have had a single shred of UE3 code in them since they, allegedly, were using their own tech.)

SK (read: Dyak) gambled and lost, big time--they have no one to blame for their current circumstances but themselves.



The game wasn't that bad. Sure, it could be a rental..... but it's not garbage. Now I want to play it again :)



Everyone needs to play Lost Odyssey! Any opposition to this and I will have to just say, "If it's a fight you want, you got it!"

theRepublic said:
ECM said:
theRepublic said:

You can do that by winning the origial lawsuit.

SK licensed the UE3 engine for their games.

That's  the issue, SK licensed UE3, then droped the license but kept using the code. They decided UE3 wasn't good enough so they had to "write their own engine" and ditched the UE3 license. Then after the game bombed they decided to sue Epic for not putting enough resources into supporting UE3. 

So then during the procedings Epic got the source code to SK's source code and proved that SK had removed all the copyright notices etc, but kept huge chunks of UE3 code without paying for it. So Epic could prove that SK had in fact used UE3 for their games and hadn't had to create a new engine from scratch like they claimed. If they did not Countersue then it would set the precedent that devs could use their code after they had stopped paying the license, so they really had no choice. 

So really SK stole the code and didn't pay for it, soEpic countersued. And the judge decided that they had to get rid of all the code and products containing the code that they didn't pay for. 



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