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Forums - Sales Discussion - Quality =/= sales

man-bear-pig said:
morenoingrato said:
So this thread was created with the purpose of trolling Gran Turismo?

Who is the incompetent moderator that unlocked this?


If you had bothered reading the OP you would realise the purpose of this thread. Please don't spam my thread. Thanks.


The OP is very flawed and you have yet to acknowledge the points I rased in my post. 



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YukanaSenix said:
Carl2291 said:
Forza is the definitive racing game. Its quite surprising that such a definitive experience cant beat the lesser rival.

Also, GT5:P is a Million higher than that with known PSN sales.

Yep. The definitive racing game got destroyed by a glorified Demo. Upsetting. Hopefully Microsoft will force it on people again this Year with yet another 2 Million bundles. Forza 4 seems to have dropped substantially, sales-wise.


Sure if you know NOTHING about Cars or racing at all.

GT5 is the best driving simulator available on consoles.
Don't even try to say anything about GT5 before you didn't play with the right setup including a high quality wheel,gear stick and pedals.
GT5 is far more realistic in term of driving physics and tests have proven the 2.0 Version of GT5 is "destroying" Forza4.
Oh and there was one thing most reviewers didn't know about Gran Turismo 5 > You have to get pretty high in the driver level to unlock everything like Damage on the cars and all that stuff.
Reviewers obviously said there isn't anything like that,gave the game a low rating till Yamauchi tweeted those noobs didn't play far enough to unlock the stuff.
Of course people,especially GT haters only heard about the bad reviews and scores that were given by someone who didn't even play the game.
Sorry that Gran Turismo 5 has content for 238972984728976543 hours and doesn't give you everything after 2 hours with 1000 Gamerscore like Avatar or so.

And of course
Gran Turismo is on the Playstation.Playstation is far stronger in the most important markets for Racing Games especially simulators > Europe and Asia.
The USA and especially the 360 crowd doesn't care that much about Racing Simulators as much as the Sony crowd does.
Forza would sell the same or close numbers as Gran Turismo if it would be available on the PS3 as would for example something like Killzone sell a few millions more on the 360.
This is a fact - And Microsoft will never control Europe,especially not Middle Europe(Germany for example) where AC3 PS3 Version has more PreOrders than Halo 4.Such things are unthinkable in the USA.

i definitely agree with you on the content bit, i've played gt 5 now for several hours and i don't think i've even completed a third of the events yet

but isn't the damage unlocking thing a myth? i'm nearly at level 30 now and i think that i've seen damage on cars from the beginning when i messed up during races

 

btw i think he was being sarcastic



man-bear-pig said:
TruckOSaurus said:

Who was there (or popular) first has a lot to do with sales too.

The iPod was the first very successful mp3 player. It's popularity is part of the reason, I went for a iPod Mini as my first mp3 player. I got used to iTunes, to the click wheel, bought a car adapter and the product satisfied my music listening needs.

Since then plenty of mp3 players have been released and I have no doubt some of them are of superior quality to the iPod but each new mp3 player I bought over the years have been iPods because that's what I know, I feel comfortable with the interface and I'm still satisfied with what they offer me.

The same logic applies to those (mindnumbingly boring) racing sims. Gran Turismo was there long before Forza, people know it, people are satisfied with the experience and that's why the game performs better.


This is another possible explanation. However, MP3 players were on the market before the iPod released (like GT was on the market before Forza) and when the iPod was released it was a higher quality product (like Forza) except it actually sold more than MP3 players (unlike Forza and GT).

Before the iPod, MP3 players weren't as popular. They were the first major hit in that field.

I don't enjoy Racing Sims so I don't know much about their history but from what I know, Gran Turismo is a defining title in that genre (like the iPod was defining for MP3 players) that weights a whole lot in the balance.

As long as GT produces quality titles, their legacy will be enough to pull in the sales despite the quality of competing products (like Forza).



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Let me first start out by saying quality is definitely objective. There is the general populace that agrees with what quality is but there are other outlying people that would disagree with what the general populace thinks.

Sales do equal quality but it certainly isn't the only factor.

I would say the two biggest factors of sales are brand name and quality depending on where the game or franchise is within it's life. When a game first starts out, quality is it's biggest sale factor but when it becomes an established franchise brand name becomes the key factor in sales. It's also important to note that brand name and quality can feed each other with each game to make a super franchise such as COD.

Here is what I would say are the biggest factors of sales for new IP's and established franchises (I won't be adding genres because different genres have different caps on sales expectations). I'm probably missing a factor or two here.

New IP's: quality > advertising > word of mouth > what console it is on in any given region (different regions generally have slightly altered taste) > other similar games in that genre on the same console > what studio developed it (which is the only form of brand name a new IP really gets).

Established Franchises: brand name > quality > advertising > word of mouth/it's whats "in" (think all my friends have it) > what console it is on in any given region (different regions generally have slightly altered taste) > other similar games in that genre on the same console



Rafux said:
Quality =/= sales.

Platinum/Clover Studio comes to my mind every time I heard that.


This a 1000 times... lets just look at vanquish



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YukanaSenix said:
Reviewers obviously said there isn't anything like that,gave the game a low rating till Yamauchi tweeted those noobs didn't play far enough to unlock the stuff.
Of course people,especially GT haters only heard about the bad reviews and scores that were given by someone who didn't even play the game.
Sorry that Gran Turismo 5 has content for 238972984728976543 hours and doesn't give you everything after 2 hours with 1000 Gamerscore like Avatar or so.

This is truth.  I remember the review situation with GT5 very well.  Reviews were coming out filled with misinformation because quite a few reviewers did not play long enough to adequately detail the game or did not understand the game enough to explain it.  They didn't actually review the game, only the first part.  The car damage thing, for example, had a lot of people confused.  Some reviewers were saying damage was unlocked, while others, who clearly did not play long enough at all, were saying that only minor damage was in the game.  In reality, it's pretty simple; only special models, such as pure race cars, show extensive damage.

The depth of GT5, and the continuing extensive support of the game with updates, kind of exposes the flaws in depending on reviews written at release by media outlets that rush through games to increase their review volume.

I know that the OP created this thread to discredit Gran Turismo 5, but in reality all he's really doing is shining a light on why Metacritic score is often a poor way to judge quality.



I'm not sure what to make of this thread. Is this a joke thread?

I mean, isn't it obvious that some great games don't sell well, and some mediocre games sell really well? Beyond Good & Evil sold 500,000 copies, and Mario Kart Wii sold 32 million more than that.

And just because the critics polled at Metacritic gave a game an aggregate score of 90 doesn't mean YOU will think it's a 90.

So 1) a game high in quality is not guaranteed to sell well, and 2) critical consensus is not always a good indicator of popular appeal. But we all already knew that.





it's a thing



Bumping this so that everyone can see what a fraud pezus is. Could a mod please lock his thread? Thanks in advance.



Signalstar said:
man-bear-pig said:
morenoingrato said:
So this thread was created with the purpose of trolling Gran Turismo?

Who is the incompetent moderator that unlocked this?


If you had bothered reading the OP you would realise the purpose of this thread. Please don't spam my thread. Thanks.


The OP is very flawed and you have yet to acknowledge the points I rased in my post. 

There's nothing to acknowledge...your suggestion was good, but I can't really change the OP at this late stage