Nintendo started the whole hardcore and casual thing with their red and blue ocean, but somehow Nintendo fans can't see this because Nintendo is god and they can't be the reason why gamers are divided now
Bet reminder: I bet with Tboned51 that Splatoon won't reach the 1 million shipped mark by the end of 2015. I win if he loses and I lose if I lost.
What? Hardcore and casual was a thing before the Wii.
93,157 
Immortal said:
Civilization games are generally rated 12, I think, putting them in that ambiguous category. I think the vast majority of history-based strategy-ish games along the lines of Civilization and Age of Empires are in the same boat. GT - and the sports genre as a whole - is admittedly an exception. And, honestly, I've seen 7-year-olds playing Minecraft. On their phones. Unless they've really lowered the standards, like hell is that hardcore. I definitely agree with Rol's point as well; this rule works much better on the other end. |
I don't want to belabor this subject, but what is the point of grouping games into hardcore and casual categories according to your specifications?
| Veknoid_Outcast said: I don't want to belabor this subject, but what is the point of grouping games into hardcore and casual categories according to your specifications? |
What's the point of dividing games into these groups in the first place? It allows us to see which games are worth playing for mature people and which ones are for the worthless lowest common denominator of kiddies and soccer moms.
“These are my principles; if you don’t like them, I have others.” – Groucho Marx
| Immortal said:
Civilization games are generally rated 12, I think, putting them in that ambiguous category. I think the vast majority of history-based strategy-ish games along the lines of Civilization and Age of Empires are in the same boat. GT - and the sports genre as a whole - is admittedly an exception. And, honestly, I've seen 7-year-olds playing Minecraft. On their phones. Unless they've really lowered the standards, like hell is that hardcore. I definitely agree with Rol's point as well; this rule works much better on the other end. |
The only Civilization game that is 12+ is the 5th part... and only in Europe. All the other games are below that. Then there's The Settlers, Dodonpachi, R-Type Final, Tyrian, Mushihime-sama... should we exclude shoot em ups as well?
Now the system determines if the game is hardcore or not? And what's the problem with the age? The extra muscles you get when you grow up won't make a difference in a videogame. Kayane (yes, a girl) was a semi-finalist in the Soul Calibur 2 World Tournament when she was 12 (or 11... I can't remember well). And D21Lewis' daughter who is 11 years old probably have beated more hardcore games than you and me combined.
Rock Band, Guitar Hero, Hatsune Miku, Resident Evil Darkside Chronicles and Umbrella Chronicles... and then we have lots of simple games with girls that are T-Rated... it is easy as well the other way around.
| Player2 said: The only Civilization game that is 12+ is the 5th part... and only in Europe. All the other games are below that. Then there's The Settlers, Dodonpachi, R-Type Final, Tyrian, Mushihime-sama... should we exclude shoot em ups as well? Now the system determines if the game is hardcore or not? And what's the problem with the age? The extra muscles you get when you grow up won't make a difference in a videogame. Kayane (yes, a girl) was a semi-finalist in the Soul Calibur 2 World Tournament when she was 12 (or 11... I can't remember well). And D21Lewis' daughter who is 11 years old probably have beated more hardcore games than you and me combined. Rock Band, Guitar Hero, Hatsune Miku, Resident Evil Darkside Chronicles and Umbrella Chronicles... and then we have lots of simple games with girls that are T-Rated... it is easy as well the other way around. |
Now you're just naming bizarre-sounding niche games that I haven't heard of for the most part. Looking them up on Wikipedia, it looks like you're referring to lots of old games. You realize this definition - hell, this concept of casual and hardcore - only came into being this generation, right?
For the system, we pretend it doesn't matter for the most part (even though it's evident that Wii is just a casual shovelware box, but that's because it has casual shovelware and not by definition, I'm sure), except when it's on a phone. You can't seriously be saying that something on a phone is a proper game. That's absurd.
Oh, and of course the age matters. And the gender. I seem to recall that d21lewis' thread had a very ironic tone. Because, you know what? Girls and little kids aren't supposed to play those games normally. It's only the exceptional cool kids who do.
For your examples, RB and GH are T, I'm pretty sure. And I said that was ambiguous. Hatsune Miku's T, too, but, more importantly, it's only played by creepy 30-year-old males (i.e. the core gaming audience) so it's not casual. Also, I was pretty sure that Resident Evil was popular amongst core gamers. You still haven't given a good example for M-rated casual games.
“These are my principles; if you don’t like them, I have others.” – Groucho Marx
Immortal said:
For the system, we pretend it doesn't matter for the most part (even though it's evident that Wii is just a casual shovelware box, but that's because it has casual shovelware and not by definition, I'm sure), except when it's on a phone. You can't seriously be saying that something on a phone is a proper game. That's absurd. Oh, and of course the age matters. And the gender. I seem to recall that d21lewis' thread had a very ironic tone. Because, you know what? Girls and little kids aren't supposed to play those games normally. It's only the exceptional cool kids who do. For your examples, RB and GH are T, I'm pretty sure. And I said that was ambiguous. Hatsune Miku's T, too, but, more importantly, it's only played by creepy 30-year-old males (i.e. the core gaming audience) so it's not casual. Also, I was pretty sure that Resident Evil was popular amongst core gamers. You still haven't given a good example for M-rated casual games. |
Okay, so for now we have to exclude sport games, racers, shoot em ups, niche games, and it works only for current gen games... sounds great xD. If the definition doesn't work for all games, old and new isn't worth anything.
When in 10-15 years phones and tablets can run current gen games with emulators those games will become casual games magically?
I think you're missing something with the Hatsune Miku game. I have to find a 12+ rated game that is casual based on the definition I posted, not a 12+ rated game that is played by people who is 12-. And the Resident Evil Wii games are rail shooters. Fable: the Journey for Kinect as well. That fits perfectly the definition. Or they get a free pass because they have the words Resident Evil or Fable in the name? If Sony makes a God of War cooking game it would be hardcore?
| Player2 said: Okay, so for now we have to exclude sport games, racers, shoot em ups, niche games, and it works only for current gen games... sounds great xD. If the definition doesn't work for all games, old and new isn't worth anything. When in 10-15 years phones and tablets can run current gen games with emulators those games will become casual games magically? I think you're missing something with the Hatsune Miku game. I have to find a 12+ rated game that is casual based on the definition I posted, not a 12+ rated game that is played by people who is 12-. And the Resident Evil Wii games are rail shooters. Fable: the Journey for Kinect as well. That fits perfectly the definition. Or they get a free pass because they have the words Resident Evil or Fable in the name? If Sony makes a God of War cooking game it would be hardcore? |
The only ones I conceded were the sports/racing games. I mean, I don't think you even have shoot 'em ups nowdays. Or if they're necessarily "core". For niche games, I just said I've never heard of them so I really can't agree whether or not you're using the right examples.
Since the concept didn't exist ten years ago, it can't apply to games released then. I dare you to find a single publication that uses the term "hardcore gamer" before this generation. In another ten years, the concept won't exist anymore so it won't matter. Does my definition for Yugoslavian not work because it doesn't mean anything today?
Also, you have to find not a 12-rated game (which I said was ambiguous), but a 16 or 18-rated game that we all agree is casual, which you still haven't done. And of course core franchises get a free pass. A God of War cooking game would be very hardcore.
“These are my principles; if you don’t like them, I have others.” – Groucho Marx
| Immortal said: And, honestly, I've seen 7-year-olds playing Minecraft. On their phones. Unless they've really lowered the standards, like hell is that hardcore. |
Wait...you can play Minecraft on your phone now?
the competitive part of pokemon is quite interesting... seeing a lvl 1 aron beating the crap out of your lvl 100 pokemons is pearless.
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