I've discovered that Pokemon is a Hardcore Game, therefore Pokemon Haters must be Casual Gamers (and a few Mid-core).

[Immortal]

Player2 said:

The only Civilization game that is 12+ is the 5th part... and only in Europe. All the other games are below that. Then there's The Settlers, Dodonpachi, R-Type Final, Tyrian, Mushihime-sama... should we exclude shoot em ups as well?

Now the system determines if the game is hardcore or not? And what's the problem with the age? The extra muscles you get when you grow up won't make a difference in a videogame. Kayane (yes, a girl) was a semi-finalist in the Soul Calibur 2 World Tournament when she was 12 (or 11... I can't remember well). And D21Lewis' daughter who is 11 years old probably have beated more hardcore games than you and me combined.

Rock Band, Guitar Hero, Hatsune Miku, Resident Evil Darkside Chronicles and Umbrella Chronicles... and then we have lots of simple games with girls that are T-Rated... it is easy as well the other way around.

Now you're just naming bizarre-sounding niche games that I haven't heard of for the most part. Looking them up on Wikipedia, it looks like you're referring to lots of old games. You realize this definition - hell, this concept of casual and hardcore - only came into being this generation, right?

For the system, we pretend it doesn't matter for the most part (even though it's evident that Wii is just a casual shovelware box, but that's because it has casual shovelware and not by definition, I'm sure), except when it's on a phone. You can't seriously be saying that something on a phone is a proper game. That's absurd.

Oh, and of course the age matters. And the gender. I seem to recall that d21lewis' thread had a very ironic tone. Because, you know what? Girls and little kids aren't supposed to play those games normally. It's only the exceptional cool kids who do.

For your examples, RB and GH are T, I'm pretty sure. And I said that was ambiguous. Hatsune Miku's T, too, but, more importantly, it's only played by creepy 30-year-old males (i.e. the core gaming audience) so it's not casual. Also, I was pretty sure that Resident Evil was popular amongst core gamers. You still haven't given a good example for M-rated casual games.