In a discussion in another topic I was told by a senior member to stick with the official definition of Hardcore gamer given by the Wikipedia (which I didn't know of its existance). After reading the definition it was clear that Pokemon was a Hardcore game, therefore Pokemon haters must be a different type of gamers. How so? Let's check it out:

(Original Wikipedia article here)

Hardcore gamer

Hardcore gamers prefer to take significant time and practice on games, and tend to play more involved games that require larger amounts of time to complete or master. Hardcore gamers may take part in video game culture such as competitions, events and conventions. (...) (more tournament stuff).

Does Pokemon cater to the tastes of the hardcore? Let's see:

• It is a competitive game.

• There are Pokemon Tournaments, Events and Conventions (Nintendo gives event pokemons there).

• It takes a lot of time to play, complete and master. Since it is a RPG it takes over 50 hours just to beat the single player mode. Completing the Pokedex takes even more time. Then building a competitive team takes a lot of thinking to choose properly between all the options available, and finally putting together the natures, EV spreads desired, moves, items, abilities of the six pokemon and then leveling everyone to Lv. 100 takes an insane amount of time.

• It is also an involved game. Along with the time needed to play it at high level, it is a complex game that requires a lot of knowledge, not only to build your team, but to predict your opponent moves and take advantage of it. Due to that complexity tons of nonsensical terms for the average mortal like BoltBeam, TSS, RestTalking, Priority Move, Entry Hazard, SubSeed, ParaFlinching and many others have been coined. Also while the story isn't stellar, the bond generated between the player and his pokemon along the single player mode is something special.

It looks like Pokemon has everything a Hardcore gamer likes in a game (therefore it is a hardcore game), so it would be foolish to believe that Hardcore gamers are Pokemon haters. They must be other type of gamers. Let's see the other groups:

Mid-core gamer

A core or mid-core gamer is a player with a wide range of interests and enthusiast toward creative and diverse games,  but without the amount of time spent and sense of competition of a hardcore gamer. The mid-core gamer enjoys complex games but won't buy every novel release, doesn't have time for long games,  and is a target consumer that needs features not found in games for the other types.(...)(uneeded Nintendo stuff).

So Mid-core gamers enjoy complex games as well, but for whatever reason they have less time to play. While Pokemon is a long game, it allows players to save the game anytime except in the middle of a battle, and completing the pokedex and competitive battles are optional. This single reason, softened by the elements mentioned before, doesn't seem enough to consider that Mid-core gamers are the bulk of the Pokemon haters.

Finally, the Casual gamers:

Casual gamer

A casual gamer is a player whose time or interest in playing games is limited. Casual gamers tend to play games designed for ease of gameplay and don't spend much time playing more involved games. The genres that casual gamers play vary, and they might not own a specific video game console to play their games. (...)(more demographic stuff).

That wasn't very informative about the preferences of Casual gamers, so let's see what the Casual game article says:

Most casual games have similar basic features:

• Extremely simple gameplay, like a puzzle game that can be played entirely using a one-button mouse or cellphone keypad
• Allowing gameplay in short bursts, during work breaks or, in the case of portable and cell phone games, on public transportation
• The ability to quickly reach a final stage, or continuous play with no need to save the game
• Some variant on a "try before you buy" business model or an advertising-based model

There are big issues here. Except for being a portable game and the possibility to play the game in short bursts (thanks to the "save anytime" feature), everything else is a problem: It requires a dedicated gaming system to play, the gameplay isn't simple, it can't be played with a single button, reaching the final stage takes lots of hours, saving is absolutely needed, no "try before you buy" model...

So it's clear that Casual gamers have lots of reasons to hate Pokemon.

The new definition is, any game that I don't like is a casual game.

Ppl who hate games are casual gamers. We don't have to play every game. Hating things that never hurt anyone is a waste of time.

I don't play Pokemon as it seems too strategic for my tastes. It's not a casual game IMO. But I don't think the game makes the gamer. If you buy Pokemon your a casual. If you play it a lot but don't beat it, you r a mid. If you beat it your a hardcore.

At least going by the criteria you set forth, that seems right.

A game is as hardcore as the community makes it, but it's quite clear Gamefreak have shaped future iterations to cater towards the Pokemon metagame tourney scene, all while keeping the games very fun and approachable to the casual gamer, which is a commendable feat.

Smogon.com should keep you all in the know how for the Pokemon Meta game. It was quite fun though from memory, but it used to devolve into using Stealth Rock a lot and of course OU listed Pokemon. There was a Java program you could use to battle other players online using any team you wished but i've forgotten its name. Would greatly appreciate it if someone could post it.

Yes, I think that Stealth Rock is too good (and unfair because it applies weakness/resistance). But any competitive game have balance issues from time to time. Just look at all those Bobs it Tekken 6 tournaments...

No doubt. I think Gamefreak did an adequate job trying to make some of the weaker pokemon viable through Dream-World exclusive Pokemon Abilities. Not much more they can do other than changing Pokemon type weaknesses and resistances entirely.

That's funny, I don't see anything there defining casual gamers as people who dislike a single arbitrary example of a hardcore game.

Well, cinematic games are basically more casual by default given how they shift some focus away from actual gaming. And Nintendo is the most gameplay focused game developer I know about...


Still, this would be a better world if the terms hardcore/casual gaming never existed. Their sole purpose is to be used by people who consider themselves hardcore gamers to bash the people that they consider casual gamers.

THE1 is wise beyond his years. If I could I would abolish the terms altogether.