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Forums - Nintendo - I've discovered that Pokemon is a Hardcore Game, therefore Pokemon Haters must be Casual Gamers (and a few Mid-core).

pokoko said:

Your logic doesn't follow.  A hardcore gamer can easily hate another genre which has its own hardcore players.  For example, MMOs like WoW have tons of hardcore gamers, though MMOs are often hated by hardcore gamers who play FPS titles.

I'll quote myself:

Hating a game just because it is different is quite stupid. Imagine that every company made only shooters (or the genre you prefer). Then if the shooter userbase isn't big enough the entire industry would collapse. Diversity is absolutely needed. Do you think we have enough people that doesn't realize this?



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Smeags said:
sales2099 said:
It CAN be hardcore, but I remember being 11 years old when Pokemon red and blue came out when pokemon took off.

You cant say a game is truly core when pre teens are the main players.

It's the Pokemon effect:

It's so true though. Pokemon was huge while I was in elementary school. One of the coolest kids in the school invited me over just so he could have someone to play Pokemon Stadium with.

Then high school was a dark time, where you had to play in secret because it was a "kid's game".

And then college rolls around... and everyone (everyone!) has a DS with Pokemon. My room-mate and I would spend (waste) hours upon hours training, breeding, and testing our teams. It was a magical time.

I was writing this when I saw Veknoid Outcast's post and replied him:

"I think that this casual vs. hardcore thing started with a bunch of elitist idiots that took pride in playing games that had certain themes to be the cool guys and/or annoy other people in school/college. Then with the PSP/DS it took off." :D



RolStoppable said:

Yeah... no. I don't think you will find people agreeing with your list.

But anyway, the terminology of hardcore and casual is of course stupid. The only reason why people started to divide things in two camps is because first the DS was beating the PSP and then the Wii was beating the HD consoles. People could either accept that Nintendo was winning or they could go the route of breaking it down into different markets (with hilariously arbitary definitions), so Nintendo sales were acknowledged, but they were not really beating Sony and Microsoft. Others went the route of not being willing to categorize the Wii as seventh generation console, but that has died down ever since the Wii started to get outsold by the HD consoles on a regular basis.

I am confident in saying that had Nintendo lost the crown in the handheld market with the DS and had the Wii gone the way of the GameCube, then the market would have never been broken down into hardcore and casual games. After all, nobody ever seemed to be offended by the sales of Singstar and Guitar Hero on the PS2, as well as the countless licensed kids games like Spongebob Squarepants.

All of this is my religion until the very end -- I believe the "casual" hatred would have grown from the popularity of social and mobile games regardless of Nintendo's success.



RolStoppable said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:

What's wrong with my list?

I guess people would disagree if they think a "hardcore" game is a game with sex, gore, and adult content. But I don't buy that. We have a ESRB rating system to tell us what is meant for adults and what is meant for all audiences.

Why do we, as video game fans, need to separate games into "hardcore" and "casual"? I've never heard someone call The Godfather or Schindler's List hardcore, or Singin' in the Rain casual. It just doesn't make much sense. And it's not productive at all.

What's wrong with your list is that it violates the basic definition of a hardcore game (a game that a person likes). Since many people around here like at least one series of the group GTA, CoD and Halo, they will not tolerate that you are trying to shove these games into the casual camp (games that people don't like).

Your last paragraph contains a rhetorical question, I would assume. I just explained why games began to get separated into "hardcore" and "casual". But to add to it, this categorisation is driven by elitism. Those who consider themselves hardcore usually also consider themselves superior.

Hey, you're preaching to the converted :)

You make some really great points. I think it would be an important step forward if video game players spent more time outside their comfort zone, and less time denigrating games they think are too "casual" or whatever. For the longest time I never played RTS games because I thought I would hate them, but now I really like them.



RolStoppable said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:
RolStoppable said:

Let's look into the opposite direction. Name five M-rated games that are casual.

Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3
Halo 3

I just took these from the best-sellers list. There are only so many dedicated video game enthusiasts out there. The vast majority of people who purchased these games are only marginally interested in video games.

By the way, I think there are no such things as casual and hardcore games. Someone can play Angry Birds for 8 hours every day, and someone can play Halo 3 on multiplayer an hour every week with a couple of friends.

Yeah... no. I don't think you will find people agreeing with your list.

But anyway, the terminology of hardcore and casual is of course stupid. The only reason why people started to divide things in two camps is because first the DS was beating the PSP and then the Wii was beating the HD consoles. People could either accept that Nintendo was winning or they could go the route of breaking it down into different markets (with hilariously arbitary definitions), so Nintendo sales were acknowledged, but they were not really beating Sony and Microsoft. Others went the route of not being willing to categorize the Wii as seventh generation console, but that has died down ever since the Wii started to get outsold by the HD consoles on a regular basis.

I am confident in saying that had Nintendo lost the crown in the handheld market with the DS and had the Wii gone the way of the GameCube, then the market would have never been broken down into hardcore and casual games. After all, nobody ever seemed to be offended by the sales of Singstar and Guitar Hero on the PS2, as well as the countless licensed kids games like Spongebob Squarepants.

So your saying this whole casual vs hardcare thing was invented by Sony gamers because they didn't want to be associated with losing systems (PSP, PS3, and now Vita). Im saying this because Xbox fans have no loyalties in the handheld sector for obvious reasons and don't have a history of craving the #1 sales spot, unlike Sony fans.My bias has underlying truths here, and I feel I just had an epiphany lol.

Hats off to Sony fans, thats a hell of a conspiracy to preserve their PS1/PS2 glory days.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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Player2 said:
pokoko said:

Your logic doesn't follow.  A hardcore gamer can easily hate another genre which has its own hardcore players.  For example, MMOs like WoW have tons of hardcore gamers, though MMOs are often hated by hardcore gamers who play FPS titles.

I'll quote myself:

Hating a game just because it is different is quite stupid. Imagine that every company made only shooters (or the genre you prefer). Then if the shooter userbase isn't big enough the entire industry would collapse. Diversity is absolutely needed. Do you think we have enough people that doesn't realize this?

Of course it's stupid.  There are stupid people in every walk of society.  There are hardcore gamers who are normal, intelligent people, as well.  I remember reading an article long ago about how many of the best, most goal-driven MMO players were A-type personalities who were successful in their careers.  When I used to play WoW, I was in a raiding guild where the leader was businessman who'd made enough money to retire early.

The mistake a lot of people make is that they start to define hardcore players by a few elitist loud-mouths.  They assume that everyone who is hardcore is like that, which is foolish.  My best friend, before he passed away, was hardcore into MMOs.  He had Cystic Fibrosis, and so spent most of his life inside his home.  He was damned good at WoW and several other MMOs he played.  He was also a very nice person and nothing like what a lot of people try to paint hardcore players as being.

People get way, way too caught up in these terms.  They're just a basic framework that makes it easier to know what we're talking about.  If someone says "casual gamer" then we have a vague idea of what they're talking about without having to define it every single time.  Hating anyone based on these terms is silly, and hating inanimate constructions like the games themselves is even more perplexing.



"I've discovered that salmon is a meat, therefore salmon haters must be vegan..."



Since when are rpgs casual?



NolSinkler said:
"I've discovered that salmon is a meat, therefore salmon haters must be vegan..."

You said in one sentence what I could not in ten. Thank you.



Player2 said:
Immortal said:
That definition is nonsense.
Any game rated above T/12 is hardcore and any game rated below is casual (i.e. for kiddies and soccer moms). Games rated T/12 vary in hardcoreness. With some evident exceptions, this definition always works. Pokemon is not one of these exceptions; it is evidently for kiddies.

Should I trust a forum user instead of the Wikipedia then? Notice that by your definition Civilization, Gran Turismo and Minecraft (for example) are for soccer moms.


Don't trust me. Try the definition yourself. It works.

Civilization games are generally rated 12, I think, putting them in that ambiguous category. I think the vast majority of history-based strategy-ish games along the lines of Civilization and Age of Empires are in the same boat.

GT - and the sports genre as a whole - is admittedly an exception.

And, honestly, I've seen 7-year-olds playing Minecraft. On their phones. Unless they've really lowered the standards, like hell is that hardcore.

I definitely agree with Rol's point as well; this rule works much better on the other end.



 

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