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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Former IGN Employee Admits Review Scores Are Skewed Due to Public Relations

Kantor said:
Blah blah blah


Nope, sorry , Can't believe you, I rather trust myself.

even if you are honest, you still play these games to review them , and by that you don't fully enjoy them, because you do it for work, so your opinion might be very critical.



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Kantor said:
I don't really understand this.

We get a fair few review copies, and I swear on my life that not once have I EVER been asked to inflate my review score by anyone. Hell, Naughty Bear was a review copy and I gave that a 3.3. Nobody cared.

Maybe with the big sites, but I don't understand why some people would get unconditional review copies (like us) and others would get them with strings attached. I can perhaps buy that the "world exclusive" reviews are vetted to ensure that they are nice to the game, but think about it: if just one site doesn't want to play ball, it just releases a story saying that the company tried to moneyhat a review, and bam, PR disaster.

Look at what happened with Duke Nukem Forever. The PR guy said they would be reconsidering review copies in future based on some of the reviews, and he was promptly fired.

There is a certain amount of goodwill that you feel towards a company who has given you a free game, but that's all there is to it.

It's rather simple, really. It's all about Metacritic (mentioned constantly by companies), because that's what these companies tend to see as the holy grail. A high score on there is considered a massive boon.

So, consider that GamrReview has...no reviews on Metacritic? Maybe a few I missed?

IGN is sitting at 11,653 reviews on Metacritic. Gamespot has 9,299. Gamespy is 4,748. Eurogamer is 4,065. These are generally the 'big boys' of game reviewing.

VGC's reviews are important to people on the site, but these bigger review places reach rather massive audiences. Thus they are ripe for manipulation by offering advertising dollars and the like, knowing that these sites depend on those advertisements to keep going and such. Thus, they seek better reviews from these bigger places to ensure positive reviews, because that way more people will see it.



Kantor said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:
This is so deeply disappointing. How are video games ever going to be taken seriously when the people responsible for rating and reviewing the games aren't real journalists?

I can barely even go to sites like IGN and GameSpot any more. I much prefer talking to everyone here about upcoming games. The users here are honest with themselves and each other.

As someone who's worked for a magazine and several newspapers, this lack of journalistic integrity really rubs me the wrong way.

As opposed to, say, movie reviewers, who appear to have an average age of 65 and tastes stuck in the 1970s?

Reviews will always be subjective, but they are more objective with games than anything else because there are certain standards - good controls, good graphics, good music and sound in general, good length to which all games can be held, and because they are primarily about gameplay, which tends to be the same within a genre, rather than telling a story, which can be wildly different.

I was just responding to your earlier post when I saw your response to MY earlier post :)

Of course reviews will always be somewhat subjective -- that goes without saying -- but I think the corps of movie reviewers if so far above and beyond the corps of video game reviewers the comparison is almost pointless. Of course there are boneheads in each camp, but the very best movie critics are some of the very best writers, thinkers, and film historians.

I respect your opinion very much, but I have to disagree with almost everything in your final paragraph. There are just as many criteria to be reviewed with movies as there are in video games: cinematography, art direction, screenplay, musical score, direction, makeup, costume design, sound design, acting, editing, etc. Plus movies have been around in one form or another for 117 years. That's over a century of movies as a foundation for each critic willing to watch them and study them. Again, there are lousy movie critics out there -- no doubt -- but as a group they outclass video game critics easily. And I say that as someone who writes video game reviews every week. There is just a longer history and a much more disciplined craft in movie criticism.

Sorry for the rant.



Veknoid_Outcast said:
Kantor said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:
This is so deeply disappointing. How are video games ever going to be taken seriously when the people responsible for rating and reviewing the games aren't real journalists?

I can barely even go to sites like IGN and GameSpot any more. I much prefer talking to everyone here about upcoming games. The users here are honest with themselves and each other.

As someone who's worked for a magazine and several newspapers, this lack of journalistic integrity really rubs me the wrong way.

As opposed to, say, movie reviewers, who appear to have an average age of 65 and tastes stuck in the 1970s?

Reviews will always be subjective, but they are more objective with games than anything else because there are certain standards - good controls, good graphics, good music and sound in general, good length to which all games can be held, and because they are primarily about gameplay, which tends to be the same within a genre, rather than telling a story, which can be wildly different.

I was just responding to your earlier post when I saw your response to MY earlier post :)

Of course reviews will always be somewhat subjective -- that goes without saying -- but I think the corps of movie reviewers if so far above and beyond the corps of video game reviewers the comparison is almost pointless. Of course there are boneheads in each camp, but the very best movie critics are some of the very best writers, thinkers, and film historians.

I respect your opinion very much, but I have to disagree with almost everything in your final paragraph. There are just as many criteria to be reviewed with movies as there are in video games: cinematography, art direction, screenplay, musical score, direction, makeup, costume design, sound design, acting, editing, etc. Plus movies have been around in one form or another for 117 years. That's over a century of movies as a foundation for each critic willing to watch them and study them. Again, there are lousy movie critics out there -- no doubt -- but as a group they outclass video game critics easily. And I say that as someone who writes video game reviews every week. There is just a longer history and a much more disciplined craft in movie criticism.

Sorry for the rant.

Let me clarify what I mean.

An objectively good film as judged by a film reviewer is not necessarily remotely enjoyable for a viewing audience. As you say, many of them are excellent film historians, and people who are passionate about the technical aspects of films. However, the majority of filmgoers are not. It is therefore the case that a well-reviewed film will not necessarily be a successful or even popular film, and the reverse is also true.

A game reviewer, on the other hand, is really just a gamer, of similar gaming experiences to the majority of gamers out there. He therefore gives a more reliable opinion on whether or not you should like the game - though it is, of course, still an opinion, there are objective things you can look at which will tell you if a game is good, which correlate very well with whether or not the game is enjoyable. A well-made game is always enjoyable. A well-made film can be hopelessly dull.

Just consider Another Year, which, while technically marvelous and all of that, was one of the most eye-wateringly dull things I have ever seen.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

DanneSandin said:
Game journalists aren't journalists: they are gamers! I've been saying this quite some time now. AND they are biased!

I agree. And as simple gamers they're often naive, enthusiastic and inexperienced and therefore allow themselves to be affected by hype, fanboyism, expectations and public pressure much easier than you'd expect from 'real world' journalists.



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I've always felt that using the opinions of others to judge something makes absolutely no sense

Nowadays demos or betas can be had for most games before the user purchases, so i'd think that people would utilize them to form their own opinions instead



I always thought that reviews were a pile of crap. If you want to know if the game is any good you can always watch a bit of a walktrough. That will give you a much more accurate look at the game.
Heck giving the Artstyle (presentation) and Story a score is stupis itself. It might not be your cup of tea but that doesn't mean its bad or good as a rule.



This doesn't really surprise me. Video games journalism is for the most part "enthusiast press", especially on the internet. Of course you'll get some that are genuine, employ people that hold relevant qualifications and are professional. Unfortunately, there's a lot of bad publications/sites that just bring everything down. It really needs to change.



Kantor said:
I don't really understand this.

We get a fair few review copies, and I swear on my life that not once have I EVER been asked to inflate my review score by anyone. Hell, Naughty Bear was a review copy and I gave that a 3.3. Nobody cared.

Maybe with the big sites, but I don't understand why some people would get unconditional review copies (like us) and others would get them with strings attached. I can perhaps buy that the "world exclusive" reviews are vetted to ensure that they are nice to the game, but think about it: if just one site doesn't want to play ball, it just releases a story saying that the company tried to moneyhat a review, and bam, PR disaster.

Look at what happened with Duke Nukem Forever. The PR guy said they would be reconsidering review copies in future based on some of the reviews, and he was promptly fired.

There is a certain amount of goodwill that you feel towards a company who has given you a free game, but that's all there is to it.

I agree with you.  The problem with a lot of conspiracy theories is that they depend on people keeping secrets, which is unlikely.

It would be an absolute PR nightmare for anyone to have proof that a particular publisher did this.  In my opinion, it's much more likely that individual publications pressure their own writers than it is for game companies to offer direct pressure or rewards.

As for this article itself, it was basically nothing but someone on twitter dropping a few vague comments.

 



Kantor said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:
Kantor said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:
This is so deeply disappointing. How are video games ever going to be taken seriously when the people responsible for rating and reviewing the games aren't real journalists?

I can barely even go to sites like IGN and GameSpot any more. I much prefer talking to everyone here about upcoming games. The users here are honest with themselves and each other.

As someone who's worked for a magazine and several newspapers, this lack of journalistic integrity really rubs me the wrong way.

As opposed to, say, movie reviewers, who appear to have an average age of 65 and tastes stuck in the 1970s?

Reviews will always be subjective, but they are more objective with games than anything else because there are certain standards - good controls, good graphics, good music and sound in general, good length to which all games can be held, and because they are primarily about gameplay, which tends to be the same within a genre, rather than telling a story, which can be wildly different.

I was just responding to your earlier post when I saw your response to MY earlier post :)

Of course reviews will always be somewhat subjective -- that goes without saying -- but I think the corps of movie reviewers if so far above and beyond the corps of video game reviewers the comparison is almost pointless. Of course there are boneheads in each camp, but the very best movie critics are some of the very best writers, thinkers, and film historians.

I respect your opinion very much, but I have to disagree with almost everything in your final paragraph. There are just as many criteria to be reviewed with movies as there are in video games: cinematography, art direction, screenplay, musical score, direction, makeup, costume design, sound design, acting, editing, etc. Plus movies have been around in one form or another for 117 years. That's over a century of movies as a foundation for each critic willing to watch them and study them. Again, there are lousy movie critics out there -- no doubt -- but as a group they outclass video game critics easily. And I say that as someone who writes video game reviews every week. There is just a longer history and a much more disciplined craft in movie criticism.

Sorry for the rant.

Let me clarify what I mean.

An objectively good film as judged by a film reviewer is not necessarily remotely enjoyable for a viewing audience. As you say, many of them are excellent film historians, and people who are passionate about the technical aspects of films. However, the majority of filmgoers are not. It is therefore the case that a well-reviewed film will not necessarily be a successful or even popular film, and the reverse is also true.

A game reviewer, on the other hand, is really just a gamer, of similar gaming experiences to the majority of gamers out there. He therefore gives a more reliable opinion on whether or not you should like the game - though it is, of course, still an opinion, there are objective things you can look at which will tell you if a game is good, which correlate very well with whether or not the game is enjoyable. A well-made game is always enjoyable. A well-made film can be hopelessly dull.

Just consider Another Year, which, while technically marvelous and all of that, was one of the most eye-wateringly dull things I have ever seen.

I see what you are saying.

But I think both groups of reviewers can find a middle ground between elitism and populism. A movie critic who pans the popular and cherishes the off-beat regardless of quality is pretty useless. But so is a video game critic who panders to his or her audience.

As far as the other point, the one about enjoyment, I think that all boils down to taste. Movie critics have seen hundreds more movies than the average filmgoer. They've seen movies from hundreds of countries throughout the entire 20th century. As a result their tastes tend to be different from those who have seen fewer movies. When they give a perfect score to a movie that is seen by the majority of the population as dense, boring, or otherwise unwatchable, I believe the critics truly believe it to be great (and enjoyable), and truly mean to recommend it to their audience.

I happen to think movies like Citizen Kane, L'Atalante, and Ivan the Terrible are all-time great movies, but I imagine many of my peers would find them terribly mind-numbing. It's really all about taste. And tastes change as more media is consumed.