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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Does Nintendo get too extremely judged for sticking to a formula with their franchises?

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Ajescent said:
On the one hand: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
On the other hand: If there's nothing dramatically new, what makes it different from the previous one(s) that should force me to get excited?

I mean, we give EA and Activision (heat) for not changing anything drastic with regards to FIFA and COD, so why not Nintendo and Pokemon?


No, we don't. The outcry of some internet hipsters =/= professional review sites putting their horn rimmed glasses on.

 

It's simple. Nintendo is kiddy and thus not part of the cool kids club. Cool kids love to pick on kiddys to demonstrate their superiority. But it doesn't matter because Nintendo IP's like Pokemon and Mario have transcended the industry to a point where people don't even care to look up reviews for those games, because they are synonymous with quality. And they are right, because those games are good, just like Call of Duty or AC3 are good games. It's not the games fault that you played every itteration and are sick of it. I'll be playing Call of Duty for the first time this year and I have a felling that I will like it.



Ongoing bet with think-man: He wins if MH4 releases in any shape or form on PSV in 2013, I win if it doesn't.

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the typical "It is good, but it is bad" review... i think people think they are smarter when they give this kind of review...



 

Changing the core gameplay = bad. Basic battle mechanics, catching, trainers/wild pokemon, towns/routes.

Changing the content of the game = good. "You start in a house with your mom and then a professor makes you choose a fire water grass starter and then your rival picks the other one then you walk to eight gyms while fighting an evil Team and meeting rival, then the final battle with Team involves a legendary they've captured/harnessed, after which you face the Elite Four and go into the Hall of Fame". - every pokemon game, getting very tired now.

Can people distingush one from the other? I want the content to surprise/excite me, but I still want it to be the same game I enjoyed playing last time.

So I want Pokemon to still be Pokemon (and not, say, Colosseum or Mystery Dungeon) but I want to not know what the story/structure of the game is before picking it up, and I want to explore new and exciting places than just flat route -> flat cave. Huge snowy mountains/volcanoes/deserts you can get lost in would be awesome.



UltimateUnknown said:
JazzB1987 said:
UltimateUnknown said:
JazzB1987 said:

Well BW2 is a different game but I know what you want to say and in case of Fifa 12 vs 13 it should just be DLC.  But then again not everyone owns Fifa 12 so why  should they not be able to play 13? It cannot just be DLC. It could be both a retail game and a cheap addon for people who own the previous game.

The review system is faulty and sites like gamerankings or metacritic are also stupid because they distort the value of games and individual review scores.

Unless we have  different scores ( for Singleplayer, Muktiplayer, compared to all games, compared to previous games of the same series and whatnot) and drop the  OVERALL SCORE thing   the whole system is faulty. 

I mean just look at gametrailers.  The have story gampley etc.  and after the review you see the games end -score but it is not as easy as  10+9+9+10 /4 = 9.5 . it sometimes is a 9 and sometimes a 10.Under every review you see people saying  "GT FAILS AT MATHS" because people dont know whats going on. Sure most people undertand that its not just ++++/=  but noone knows how it exactly works and I even doubt the reviewers know it lol.

And every site with similar terms (story gameplay etc.) has another standard of how to come up with the end score.  Some just do the 10+10+10+10=4. Some use more complicated methods. etc.

I mean lets say I dont care about multiplayer and a game has awesome multiplayer and  good singleplayer  how does the OVERALL 9.5 tell me how good the single player is? The end score is useless for me.
Why do we differentiate when it comes to gameplay story visuals sound but stuff like MP/SP is irrelevant? And reviewers forgetting that not everyone played the first game and therefore giving it a lower score even if its better dont help at all.

And sites where reviewer A lowers the score because the game is to similar to the previous one   and then reviwere B judges another game on its own and just mentions the small differences as a small side note make all scores of the whole side useless because they have different ways to rate a game at the same site....

Every single site needs to completely overhould their review system and we need a global standard. But that wont happen...

What you state is not a problem with the reviewers, but rather a problem with the consumer. Instead of skipping to the end of a review and just looking at the final score, the consumer should be listening carefully as to why the reviewer gave the game the said score in the first place. That is the reason why review video last 5-10 minutes before awarding the final score, in which time the reviewer explains what is good and bad with the game.

In the case of the gamespot and gt reviews, both the reviewers stated that BW2 use the same tried and tested formula from the previous iteration and if you liked that then you are likely to enjoy this as well, but the game does very little to advance the formula forward, and there is too much in terms of assets, gameplay, storyline, etc that was copied off the previous game. So it gets the low review score. A good consumer who didn't play the previous game would take this statement and go back to their review of the original BW and see what exactly they said about that game which the sequels copy from. If then the consumer likes what the first game has to offer, then they should buy the sequel as the sequel contains most of the material from the first game and more.

Plus I don't understand the arguement with the Fifa game you made about some people not having Fifa 12 and so they can't get 13. I don't see why this is a problem. When BW came out originally it cost something like £35 where I live, but now BW2 costs the same. But if I wanted to buy the original BW it would probably cost me about £15-20 to buy now since the price has obviously dropped. So if they did release an expansion, newer consumers could buy the original game for the lower price and buy the expansion pack for pretty much the same price as the full game.


Well so you actially agree with me that reviews are stupid.  When the important stuff is written on all the I dunno 5 pages or is said in the 10 minutes before the score why do they use this stupid score system at all?  When the score cannot reflect what was written/ment by the reviewer there should not be a score at all!

Do you know what I like? The Kotaku reviews.  It has no stupid score system   sure it tells you to buy or not to buy a game which is also not ideal because it depends on the person you are but it at least ignores the stupid point/score system  and makes it a simpll yes or no  with a seperate Info box  about wahts good and whats bad  and the usual  block text.

I mean even just talking about a game would still be more usefull than giving the game arbitrary  numbers

And about the Fifa example. Well lets say Fifa comes out in october. Every game should have some sort of activation code you have time untill 31st December of the same year to register the game online.  And only the ones that bough the price game and registered it in time should be allowed to get the next fifa for 15 dollars as DLC  (because Fifa 13 is basically a Fifa 12 DLC when it comes to content) Everone else would need to buy it full price.

So just waiting for a game to drop to 5 pounds/euros/dollars and then getting the new version for cheap is impossible. If you bought Fifa 13 as a DLC for Fifa 12 you also get a code you have to register but they are different from the retail codes so your can be sure Fifa 13 as DLC donwload version is not bought for just 2 dollars or something. 
This could be some sort of "reward system for patrons"  I know this system needs alot of tweaks and some after thought etc But I am pretty sure it would work.



I'd prefer if Nintendo stuck to formulas more.

Then Zelda would still be good.



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KungKras said:
I'd prefer if Nintendo stuck to formulas more.

Then Zelda would still be good.

It still is good but they just made alot of mistakes.

 Making it 3 "levels" instead of a world sucked.

They should make more different areas again 3 is not enough. And more exploration is NEEDED! because the 3  "levels" felt like work from the moment you landed there to the boss battle inside the dungeon.  The only place to relax was Skyloft and 1 town is not enough....

I did not finish the game yet (I am almost done) but this was the first time I really cared about whats happening  because  Zelda was your friend not just a random rich chick. So storywise it was awesome  IMHO. I also have no problem at all with the length of cutscenes or "tutorial". (just two days ago I watched all the cutscenes up to the point where I am in the game. It was like watching a movie)

Summary:

I want (a):
-Bigger world.
-More stuff to find/do/explore (more secrets etc.)
-More towns.
-Finally a smart reason for all the rupees (I dont want to repair my stuff THATS WORK! I play Zelda games because I want be an adventurer etcl) I dunno let   me buy a house and alot of stuff to decorate it etc. Better than  buying new shields because they break or giving me a shitty red armor like Twilight Pricness that consumes money  WTF.... 



The reviews will always be bias, if the guy reviewing the game is a Nintendo/Sony/MS fan and that game belongs exclusive to either of those companies, the game will get a high score and vice versa (few exceptions are when the game really sucks, or it's really good). It's really hard to find a non bias game reviewer these days.

As for the game itself, I can see why people are "annoyed" by this game. There is no doubt Pokemon have changed over the years (more species, more Pokemon types, different areas) but for most people, those changes are minimal when you're trying to compare all the games in the franchise. 

A hardcore Pokemon fan can talk all day about the changes in stats, types and other stuff, but in the end those changes don't matter for the non Pokemon fan. In a way it's similar to the COD fans defending the franchise for adding more guns.

I have played all Pokemon games,  but I didn't liked gen 3 and 4 games. I did enjoy Pokemon Black and White because I felt (for the first time in a Pokemon game) that the story matter and it was really interesting (always reminds me of a more serious PETA lol) and I hope future games in the franchise continue that.



Nintendo and PC gamer

Soleron said:

Changing the core gameplay = bad. Basic battle mechanics, catching, trainers/wild pokemon, towns/routes.

Changing the content of the game = good. "You start in a house with your mom and then a professor makes you choose a fire water grass starter and then your rival picks the other one then you walk to eight gyms while fighting an evil Team and meeting rival, then the final battle with Team involves a legendary they've captured/harnessed, after which you face the Elite Four and go into the Hall of Fame". - every pokemon game, getting very tired now.

Can people distingush one from the other? I want the content to surprise/excite me, but I still want it to be the same game I enjoyed playing last time.

So I want Pokemon to still be Pokemon (and not, say, Colosseum or Mystery Dungeon) but I want to not know what the story/structure of the game is before picking it up, and I want to explore new and exciting places than just flat route -> flat cave. Huge snowy mountains/volcanoes/deserts you can get lost in would be awesome.

I agree.  Changing gameplay and changing content are two different things but people often lump them together when they refer to "formula".  Fallout NV is literally Fallout 3 in terms of mechanics; the content, however, makes it a completely different game and awesome in its own right.  If it had the same setting, characters, and story as Fallout 3, then it would have been guilty of offering nothing new at full cost.

I think that's part of what bothers people, when they're having to pay full price for something that clearly took little effort to produce.  It feels like you're being ripped off and used.  This, in my opinion, is the perfect use of DLC, to let people extend play-time in the original game with new content.  New games should offer new content.

Nintendo, I think, realizes that many die-hard Nintendo fans will give them a free pass on pretty much anything, though.



I haven't played B/W and B/W2, and I haven't played MW3, but I've played some pokemon before and COD:BO. I realize that MW2 is very similar to BO, and so I'd be surprised there would be much of a diff between BO and MW3. So, I'm not sure why gamespot sould judge COD more kindly for continuing what works and not pokemon. It seems unfair.

UltimateUnknown, would your point be applicable to MW3?



Games should be reviewed on jobs they are doing for the customer.

Example: Wii Fit did something that the customer didn't have before, Wii Music did not. Although both would score low in the traditional categories of graphics, sound, presentation and so on, and 'gamers' would hate both, they clearly deserve different scores.

Pokemon B/W 2 is clearly an expansion, people will buy it as an expansion (and skip it if they don't care), and it should be judged on that basis. If the next mainline Pokemon game doesn't have lots of new content it deserves these scores, but not now. It's doing the job the customer expects.