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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - "Next Gen" Launch Games

d21lewis on 21 September 2012
crissindahouse said:

i think you should take the best looking xbox 360 release games and not the worst because i think people also look at the best wii u release games to compare them with actual games. otherwise you could even take 360/ps3 games from 2011 or 2012 which still don't look much better.

i would look at pgr3, nba 2k6 and such games and compare them with xbox games and then you see there was already a big difference at release in some games.

you should also mention that even if the 360 or ps3 launch games didn't have graphical improvements except the resolution, that this alone was much more to calculate for the console.

so, i think we will get nice looking games on wii u, not only artistical, also in raw graphical aspects but i still think the launch games we know about compared to 360/ps3 games are worse graphically as it was with 360 games compared to xbox games.

Yeah, you can tell I picked some of the worst looking games on purpose.  And I would have put games like, maybe, Oni on the PS2 (not quite a launch game, but close) or something from the Gamecube/PS3 launches but those were consoles that released long after the gen was already underway.  For what it's worth, I tried to not go with the absolute worst.

The thing is, I go to certain sites and see people comment like "Assassins Creed looks just like the PS3 version.  Why should I buy a Wii U?" when next gen consoles don't offer those huge jumps, these days.  That's one of the reasons why I skipped the Xbox 360's launch.  It just didn't look like much of a jump.  A little over a year later (2007), I was buying a 360 and Gears of War with a smile on my face.  There are some great Wii U games at launch and I suspect that they'll look even better running at better frame rates and possibly higher resolutions than the competition.  It's people criticising that it will have the same games as current gen or people knocking it because "My 360 can run that game!" that evoke a reaction from me.



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d21lewis on 21 September 2012

And one more thing I'd like to point out (though most of us probably already know this-) every time a new gen comes out, the new hardware is ALWAYS outsold by the previous gen's consoles. I first noticed this (because EGM magazine pointed it out back in '89) with the Nes vs. the Gensis but it continued every gen since then. The Xbox and PS3 are likely to outsell the Wii U this holiday season and possibly next year, too. The only thing preventing this will be if the Wii U becomes a bit of a phenomenon like the Wii (unlikely, if you ask me).

When this happens, don't say "The Wii U is doomed!" Call it damage control if you want. It's what has always happened when we make the switch.



Sal.Paradise on 21 September 2012

So I'll play devils advocate and repost these, to show that clear graphical leaps are possible and very doable at the start of a generation. Anyone saying this leap isn't significant is flat out lying! (come at me d21lewis, come at me) 

Don't forget that these first HD 360 titles are of course rendering at a much higher resolution than their SD counterparts. I expect 'next gen' games to still be running mostly 720p, leaving more of that new power for graphical effects etc. 

Kameo when it was releasing on Xboxhuge:

Kameo on Xbox 360:

 

And offscreen:



crissindahouse on 21 September 2012
d21lewis said:
 

Yeah, you can tell I picked some of the worst looking games on purpose.  And I would have put games like, maybe, Oni on the PS2 (not quite a launch game, but close) or something from the Gamecube/PS3 launches but those were consoles that released long after the gen was already underway.  For what it's worth, I tried to not go with the absolute worst.

The thing is, I go to certain sites and see people comment like "Assassins Creed looks just like the PS3 version.  Why should I buy a Wii U?" when next gen consoles don't offer those huge jumps, these days.  That's one of the reasons why I skipped the Xbox 360's launch.  It just didn't look like much of a jump.  A little over a year later (2007), I was buying a 360 and Gears of War with a smile on my face.  There are some great Wii U games at launch and I suspect that they'll look even better running at better frame rates and possibly higher resolutions than the competition.  It's people criticising that it will have the same games as current gen or people knocking it because "My 360 can run that game!" that evoke a reaction from me.

yeah true, i also changed my post a little bit, i also said i think we will  get wii u games better as every ps3/360 games talking about graphical aspects. i just wanted to say that i think there was a bigger difference between xbox and xbox 360 as it seems now between ps3/360 and wii u at least when we look only at the launch of both gens. resolution alone did show me the difference at 360 release even when the games itself didn't look much different to xbox games because higher res is eating a lot of power



Roma on 21 September 2012

It doesn't matter what you show people they will not accept that in time things will look better. People don't look to the past to learn!


I have accepted the fact that WiiU is just a SNES with a screen on its controller!

*reads Busteds post, faints on top of him*



    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(

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FrancisNobleman on 21 September 2012

I remember playing a gotham racing (something like that) on X360, it was a launch window title I think, and it actually looked worse than GT4 on PS2



d21lewis on 21 September 2012
Sal.Paradise said:

So I'll play devils advocate and repost these, to show that clear graphical leaps are possible and very doable at the start of a generation. Anyone saying this leap isn't significant is flat out lying! (come at me d21lewis, come at me) 

Don't forget that these first HD 360 titles are of course rendering at a much higher resolution than their SD counterparts. I expect 'next gen' games to still be running mostly 720p, leaving more of that new power for graphical effects etc. 

Kameo when it was releasing on Xboxhuge:

Kameo on Xbox 360:

 

And offscreen:


Well, Starfox Adventures and Rebel Strike still held up pretty well compared to the Xbox Launch (and yeah, I have Kameo.  It was the second game I bought.  First game, if you don't count my pack in copy of Call of Duty 2.  Gears 1 was the second.  Project 8, the third.).  Same with Gamecube titles RE4 and Twilight Princess which managed to keep my attention even after I got my 360.  No, they couldn't compare to seeing 1000 enemy goblins on a battlefield during the Xbox 360's launch but, even then, what the Xbox 360 was showing wasn't enough to get people to head to the stores in droves.  I wasn't blown away.  Looking at the sales for the first year, most people weren't either.

And keep in mind that we are nearing a level where the jump in graphics is getting less and less noticeable.  The jump from SNES to PS1 was pretty huge (which is why I didn't put that in the OP).  We went from 2D to 3D.  But then, the jump from PS1's finest to Dreamcast wasn't as huge.  Games like Chrono Cross and Vagrant Story looked better than some Dreamcast games.  Then, the jump from  to Gamecube/Xbox to Xbox 360 was also less apparent (aside from a few standout titles).  Look at console launch darlings Perfect Dark Zero and Call of Duty 2 and tell me that they blew away Doom 3 on Xbox 1.  The jump from 7th gen to 8th gen won't be as apparent, either.  We can already see pores on a character's skin or sweet beeding down an NBA player's forehead.  The Wii U will make its impression felt.  Just wait until we can get our hands on it. 



Sal.Paradise on 21 September 2012
d21lewis said:
Sal.Paradise said:

So I'll play devils advocate and repost these, to show that clear graphical leaps are possible and very doable at the start of a generation. Anyone saying this leap isn't significant is flat out lying! (come at me d21lewis, come at me) 

Don't forget that these first HD 360 titles are of course rendering at a much higher resolution than their SD counterparts. I expect 'next gen' games to still be running mostly 720p, leaving more of that new power for graphical effects etc. 

Kameo when it was releasing on Xboxhuge:


Well, Starfox Adventures and Rebel Strike still held up pretty well compared to the Xbox Launch (and yeah, I have Kameo.  It was the second game I bought.  First game, if you don't count my pack in copy of Call of Duty 2.  Gears 1 was the second.  Project 8, the third.).  Same with Gamecube titles RE4 and Twilight Princess which managed to keep my attention even after I got my 360.  No, they couldn't compare to seeing 1000 enemy goblins on a battlefield during the Xbox 360's launch but, even then, what the Xbox 360 was showing wasn't enough to get people to head to the stores in droves.  I wasn't blown away.  Looking at the sales for the first year, most people weren't either.

And keep in mind that we are nearing a level where the jump in graphics is getting less and less noticeable.  The jump from SNES to PS1 was pretty huge (which is why I didn't put that in the OP).  We went from 2D to 3D.  But then, the jump from PS1's finest to Dreamcast wasn't as huge.  Games like Chrono Cross and Vagrant Story looked better than some Dreamcast games.  Then, the jump from  to Gamecube/Xbox to Xbox 360 was also less apparent (aside from a few standout titles).  Look at console launch darlings Perfect Dark Zero and Call of Duty 2 and tell me that they blew away Doom 3 on Xbox 1.  The jump from 7th gen to 8th gen won't be as apparent, either.  We can already see pores on a character's skin or sweet beeding down an NBA player's forehead.  The Wii U will make its impression felt.  Just wait until we can get our hands on it. 

I just cannot take seriously somebody that thinks playing Kameo or PGR3 on an HD tv in 2005 wasn't a significant leap up from your xbox/ps2/gamecube games on a crt tv. I mean it was amazing, and those shots above just show it. The lighting, the foliage, the models, the particle effects, the characters on screen in Kameo, all on an HD tv too! And the console was only $299! You even can't bring yourself to believe it! you have to add: "No, they couldn't compare to seeing 1000 enemy goblins on a battlefield during the Xbox 360's launch but.."

 And next you try to claim that the PS1-DC jump wasn't huge....you think Vagrant Story could compete with Soul Calibur or Sonic Adventure? (please, answer this, no long winded ramblings either just yes or no ) Oh and tell me with a straight face that those Kameo shots aren't a significant step up from the previous gen games. Go on, try. 

I mean this is true crazy talk. You ought to be locked up! And I don't think even you believe it yourself. 



WiiBox3 on 21 September 2012
d21lewis said:
Busted said:
I liked Gun :3 -- Can you imagine how the Wii U F-Zero will look like? or the Metroid? Star Fox!? Zelda!?! *faints*


Yeah, I liked GUN a lot, too.  I even had it in my head that Red Dead Redemption was inferior to GUN......until I went back and played it.  It looked horrible!  And I still plan on buying Tony Hawk on the 360 one day.  I"d bought every one before it so I was a little burned out on the franchise but it turned out that we never got another game like the old PS2 games except for Wasteland.

The idea of what games will look like once developers really start pushing the Wii U makes my mouth water, too.  I just wanted to remind people how poorly "next gen" consoles often start things off.  But, with the Wii U using this gen's best games (Batman, Mass Effect) as a starting point, the future looks very bright from where I'm sitting.


Yeah, Gun was a really fun game. I didn't even play it until 2010 and I still really liked it. I was hoping they would do a sequel.



d21lewis on 21 September 2012
Sal.Paradise said:
d21lewis said:
Sal.Paradise said:

So I'll play devils advocate and repost these, to show that clear graphical leaps are possible and very doable at the start of a generation. Anyone saying this leap isn't significant is flat out lying! (come at me d21lewis, come at me) 

Don't forget that these first HD 360 titles are of course rendering at a much higher resolution than their SD counterparts. I expect 'next gen' games to still be running mostly 720p, leaving more of that new power for graphical effects etc. 

Kameo when it was releasing on Xboxhuge:


Well, Starfox Adventures and Rebel Strike still held up pretty well compared to the Xbox Launch (and yeah, I have Kameo.  It was the second game I bought.  First game, if you don't count my pack in copy of Call of Duty 2.  Gears 1 was the second.  Project 8, the third.).  Same with Gamecube titles RE4 and Twilight Princess which managed to keep my attention even after I got my 360.  No, they couldn't compare to seeing 1000 enemy goblins on a battlefield during the Xbox 360's launch but, even then, what the Xbox 360 was showing wasn't enough to get people to head to the stores in droves.  I wasn't blown away.  Looking at the sales for the first year, most people weren't either.

And keep in mind that we are nearing a level where the jump in graphics is getting less and less noticeable.  The jump from SNES to PS1 was pretty huge (which is why I didn't put that in the OP).  We went from 2D to 3D.  But then, the jump from PS1's finest to Dreamcast wasn't as huge.  Games like Chrono Cross and Vagrant Story looked better than some Dreamcast games.  Then, the jump from  to Gamecube/Xbox to Xbox 360 was also less apparent (aside from a few standout titles).  Look at console launch darlings Perfect Dark Zero and Call of Duty 2 and tell me that they blew away Doom 3 on Xbox 1.  The jump from 7th gen to 8th gen won't be as apparent, either.  We can already see pores on a character's skin or sweet beeding down an NBA player's forehead.  The Wii U will make its impression felt.  Just wait until we can get our hands on it. 

I just cannot take seriously somebody that thinks playing Kameo or PGR3 on an HD tv in 2005 wasn't a significant leap up from your xbox/ps2/gamecube games on a crt tv. I mean it was amazing, and those shots above just show it. The lighting, the foliage, the models, the particle effects, the characters on screen in Kameo, all on an HD tv too! And the console was only $299! You even can't bring yourself to believe it! you have to add: "No, they couldn't compare to seeing 1000 enemy goblins on a battlefield during the Xbox 360's launch but.."

 And next you try to claim that the PS1-DC jump wasn't huge....you think Vagrant Story could compete with Soul Calibur or Sonic Adventure? (please, answer this, no long winded ramblings either just yes or no ) Oh and tell me with a straight face that those Kameo shots aren't a significant step up from the previous gen games. Go on, try. 

I mean this is true crazy talk. You ought to be locked up! And I don't think even you believe it yourself. 


Well, Kameo WAS one of the games I used in an earlier argument in another thread to prove how awesome the 360 was at launch.  What do you want me to do?  WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO!!  Yeah, it was fucking awesome!  I admit it!  The 360 made me buy an HDTV AND get internet in my house for the very first time!  Okay.  ARE YOU HAPPY NOW!!

 

*sobs*