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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - If the Upad is $150, then doesn't that mean the console is also $150

teigaga on 15 September 2012
lilbroex said:
teigaga said:
lilbroex said:
teigaga said:
Controllers are normally sold for huge profit. I doubt the wii U controller cost more then $80 to manufacture, in fact I remember a breakdown of its components coming to $50. like any accessory, its gonna be sold with a huge profit margin, for an accessory which at the moment is considered a complete luxury and with no mass market demand, expect nintendo to be selling at over %200 of its cost.

Wii system itself probably cost just under $199 taking into account the fact that it has no HDD and is using 2008 technology.


The Wii is using technology that came out after it was released?


I meant wii U* :)

Ah, still one problem that blows this claim out of the water. The one fact we know about the CPU is that is uses Power7 technology and the Power7 didn't come out until 2010.

I didn't know any info was released on the CPU. I just looked it up, the Wii U versions is underclocked to save on production cost though. They're working with  fairly modern tech but relatively mid-range specs. I'd still bet it costs just under $200 



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snowdog on 15 September 2012
samuship said:
"way more powerful now means about 20%..."

Xbox 360 (RAM): 512mb
Wii U (RAM): 2GB

Xbox 360: Pixel Shader 3.0
Wii U: Pixel Shader 4.1 (Battlefield 3, PC version...)

Xbox 360: DX9
Wii U: At least DX10.1 (something similar)



Seems legit.

You've also got to take into account the following:

360: 10MB of eDRAM for the GPU
Wii U: 32MB of eDRAM for the GPU

360: 1MB of cache for the CPU
Wii U: 3MB cache for the CPU

360: CPU with In Order Execution
Wii U: CPU with Out of Order Execution

360: CPU deals with IO
Wii U: Has a separate IO processor so the CPU doesn't have to deal with IO

360: CPU deals with audio, at least 16% of processing power (1 thread at least out of 6 is reserved exclusively for sound)
Wii U: Has a DPS (Digital Sound Processor) so the CPU doesn't have to deal with sound

 

On paper the U is going to be around three times more powerful than the 360, in real-world performance the DSP and OoOE CPU should push it towards four times more powerful.



Aprisaiden on 15 September 2012
lilbroex said:
teigaga said:
lilbroex said:
teigaga said:
Controllers are normally sold for huge profit. I doubt the wii U controller cost more then $80 to manufacture, in fact I remember a breakdown of its components coming to $50. like any accessory, its gonna be sold with a huge profit margin, for an accessory which at the moment is considered a complete luxury and with no mass market demand, expect nintendo to be selling at over %200 of its cost.

Wii system itself probably cost just under $199 taking into account the fact that it has no HDD and is using 2008 technology.


The Wii is using technology that came out after it was released?


I meant wii U* :)

Ah, still one problem that blows this claim out of the water. The one fact we know about the CPU is that is uses Power7 technology and the Power7 didn't come out until 2010.


I think he was refering to the rumours that the WiiU is usually a R700 based GPU (2008 tech). Also we know that the jump in GPU power much bigger then the jump in CPU power based off what developers have to say. (almost all the "its more powerful" comments refer to the GPU, while the "Its basically like a PS3/360 all refer to the CPU"). 

Ohh and in addition to the GPU the RAM is 2008 technology :P (Yes i know GDDR5 hasn't been replaced yet - but it was still first used in 2008)



samuship on 15 September 2012
snowdog said:
samuship said:
"way more powerful now means about 20%..."

Xbox 360 (RAM): 512mb
Wii U (RAM): 2GB

Xbox 360: Pixel Shader 3.0
Wii U: Pixel Shader 4.1 (Battlefield 3, PC version...)

Xbox 360: DX9
Wii U: At least DX10.1 (something similar)



Seems legit.

You've also got to take into account the following:

360: 10MB of eDRAM for the GPU
Wii U: 32MB of eDRAM for the GPU

360: 1MB of cache for the CPU
Wii U: 3MB cache for the CPU

360: CPU with In Order Execution
Wii U: CPU with Out of Order Execution

360: CPU deals with IO
Wii U: Has a separate IO processor so the CPU doesn't have to deal with IO

360: CPU deals with audio, at least 16% of processing power (1 thread at least out of 6 is reserved exclusively for sound)
Wii U: Has a DPS (Digital Sound Processor) so the CPU doesn't have to deal with sound

 

On paper the U is going to be around three times more powerful than the 360, in real-world performance the DSP and OoOE CPU should push it towards four times more powerful.


Perfect. You've shown it in an even better way.



We need moar Zelda, now!

We need moar Unchartedzz!

We need less DLCs.

binary solo on 15 September 2012

Wii U (total package) is probably selling at about 20-30% profit. So the full cost of the Wii U (incl game pad, Wiimotes, cables etc) is probably about $240. If game pad is selling at 150% profit that would prut the cost of the gamepad at about $65. So without the gamepad the Wii U (and other packed in accessories) possibly costs around $175.

So, yes Nintendo could sell the Wii U minus gamepad for $150. But they'd take about an 8% loss if they did. However within the space of 2 years, that would probably become a 10% profit.

It also means Wii U can rapidly come down to $250 and still be nicely profitable. So I wouldn't be surprised to see a $50 price response to the launching of PS4 and 720.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

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snowdog on 15 September 2012
Aprisaiden said:
lilbroex said:
teigaga said:
lilbroex said:
teigaga said:
Controllers are normally sold for huge profit. I doubt the wii U controller cost more then $80 to manufacture, in fact I remember a breakdown of its components coming to $50. like any accessory, its gonna be sold with a huge profit margin, for an accessory which at the moment is considered a complete luxury and with no mass market demand, expect nintendo to be selling at over %200 of its cost.

Wii system itself probably cost just under $199 taking into account the fact that it has no HDD and is using 2008 technology.


The Wii is using technology that came out after it was released?


I meant wii U* :)

Ah, still one problem that blows this claim out of the water. The one fact we know about the CPU is that is uses Power7 technology and the Power7 didn't come out until 2010.


I think he was refering to the rumours that the WiiU is usually a R700 based GPU (2008 tech). Also we know that the jump in GPU power much bigger then the jump in CPU power based off what developers have to say. (almost all the "its more powerful" comments refer to the GPU, while the "Its basically like a PS3/360 all refer to the CPU"). 

Ohh and in addition to the GPU the RAM is 2008 technology :P (Yes i know GDDR5 hasn't been replaced yet - but it was still first used in 2008)

Every single Radeon HD GPU released since 2008 is R700-based, even the 7970.

And with regards to the CPU, the Xenon and Cell are great with floating point operations (FLOPS) but next gen all 3 consoles are going to leave floating point work to the GPUs.

And it's likely that Nintendo are using highly clocked DDR3 instead of GDDR5 because it'll have lower latency due to a bigger bus, will be cheaper and has double the density, meaning that it will only take 4 x 512MB chips to make up the 2GB instead of 8 x 256MB chips. The eDRAM will ensure there aren't any bottlenecking problems.



kain_kusanagi on 15 September 2012

For me the cost of the controller feels like a total waste. I'd rather it have a regular controller and have the system cost considerably less or it have a regular controller and cost the same, but use that money to be more powerful.



Gnac on 15 September 2012
kain_kusanagi said:
For me the cost of the controller feels like a total waste. I'd rather it have a regular controller and have the system cost considerably less or it have a regular controller and cost the same, but use that money to be more powerful.

I hope Mad Catz makes an Atari Joystick just for you.



WHERE IS MY KORORINPA 3

sundin13 on 15 September 2012

Like someone else has said, controller is being sold for a huge profit...if you think about it, its hard to imagine it being worth much more than 60$



kain_kusanagi on 16 September 2012
Gnac said:
kain_kusanagi said:
For me the cost of the controller feels like a total waste. I'd rather it have a regular controller and have the system cost considerably less or it have a regular controller and cost the same, but use that money to be more powerful.

I hope Mad Catz makes an Atari Joystick just for you.


I still have my Atari Joysticks, thank you very much. They worked fine back then, but I'll tell you why I don't need gimmicks like a touch pad or motion controls. It's a simple reason really. Are you ready? Here it is: Zelda OoT played better than Zelda SS and it did so with nothing but buttons and a joystick. You didn't have to hold your hand up like a child playing with a sword. Nope, the N64 controller melted away and you became immersed in the game. Playing with anything but a standard controller just constantly reminds you that you're handling a ruddy device the whole time. Especially when the damn thing need to be reset every other minute or Link can't hit anything. I love, LOVE, Nintendo games. Been playing them for ages. I've happy with innovations, but I don't like my favorite franchises changed so much I can't enjoy them as much. Zelda SS is the only game I've ever played that has gotten motion controls right and I still wished, the whole time I played it, that I could use a standard controller.