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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Is the Vita truely dead?

NobleTeam360 on 23 August 2012

I'm still waiting for that must have game.



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Salnax on 23 August 2012
NobleTeam360 said:
I'm still waiting for that must have game.


For yourself, in order to justify buying a Vita? Or for the general public, in order to boost sales?



Love and tolerate.

VicViper on 23 August 2012
Salnax said:
VicViper said:
Salnax said:
A day or two ago, I'd have said "Yes." But today, after reviewing the upcoming lineup, I'm not so sure, at least in the West.

Looking over the release schedule for the rest of 2012, we have:

August: Madden
September: Fifa, LittleBigPlanet
October: Assassin's Creed
November: PSASBR, Call of Duty

Plus a new Ratchett and Clank at an unknown date. That's 7 big games, if not system sellers. It certainly beats the 3DS's Paper Mario/Layton combo.

Honestly, I think the real worry should be towards Japan. I mean, let's look at their release calendar.

August: Hatsune Miku
September Onwards: Various Western games

That's going to be competing with Bravely Default, Fantasy Life, Project X Zone, Paper Mario, and potentially Animal Crossing, a HUGE game.



TL;DR Not yet in the West, possibly in Japan unless some great immediate announcements come out at the TGS.


Exactly my opinion!

I'll add that Japan needs a good plan. The west at least has one - if it's going to fail or succeed it's another story. And it sucks, cause it's been out in japan for 9 months already.


There is probably a plan in place for Japan already.

I'm digging up some old announcements, and have to admit there are some upcoming Vita games that can appeal to Japanese gamers. Final Fantasy X HD, Soul Sacrifice, and PSASBR can all be big hits. They just need release dates!

While I doubt PASBR can be a hit there - it has a release date there already too - the other two can become hits for sure

FInal Fantasy should have been exclusive though. And Soul Sacrifice will be big, but I think they should tone-down the theme a bit - I think they're already doing it, TBH. It's more colorful and less grotesque from when they revealed it. Kids are important in mass games (if it hopes to become a MH kind of thing), getting a cero D rating won't help at all.

I still think that plan should include MH in the near future to work though. Either that or a lot of big games.



NobleTeam360 on 23 August 2012
Salnax said:
NobleTeam360 said:
I'm still waiting for that must have game.


For yourself, in order to justify buying a Vita? Or for the general public, in order to boost sales?


Myself screw what the General public wants lol. Final Fantasy type O would do the trick : ) (USA version)



Chark on 23 August 2012

HappySqurriel said:

 Even if the PS-Vita's hardware is profitable, on the whole Sony is losing a ton of money on it right now ...

Back in 2001 Nintendo and Microsoft both claimed to have a $500 Million marketing budget for the first year of their console's lives; which sounds like a lot of money until you consider that this is spread over 3 regions and over 12 months, working out to being about $20 million per region per month, and 1 30 second television advertisement in primetime costs over $1 Million. I haven't seen any reference to it but I suspect Sony is spending at least $500 Million to market the PS-Vita in 2012, and this would be about $100 per system they will have sold that they need to recover.

Beyond this there is the money that Sony has spent developing games, and the sales of most of their games today would indicate that the vast majority of their released games have lost a lot of money.

 

For console manufacturers the costs are so high that you have to sell a significant number of systems each resulting in enough game sales for the licensing fees to be high enough to compensate. At 2.5 Million units Sony has to be bleeding money at the moment.

No Sony announced a $50 million marketing plan for Vita this year. There is no reason to believe that Sony is loosing money on the Vita, sure they aren't hitting the projections they originally apsired to but the system itself is an outlet of profit. Killing the system off now is a sure fire way to lose money on it, they will never have an opportunity to make enough money back from its development. It is outrageously a bad decision.

The system's manufacturing costs will go down, they will place in price drops when the are reasonable. The system isn't making them a ton of cash but it isn't bleeding money. They need to keep everything that makes them money right now. The idea that it is failing or that it is dead is subjective because it is often weighed against competitors or past devices. PSP sold 9 million its first year, suffered from rampant pirating, and didn't have many online offerings at all. Vita might not be selling well, but it is a concrete system thusfar with EVERY title available digitally and a much more upgradable OS. Where is the line in the sand? How many devices does it need to sell? Vita will be a far more profitable venture than the PSP, Sony only needs to stand their ground during this PR onslaught.



Before the PS3 everyone was nice to me :(

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phenom08 on 23 August 2012

Don't see any reason for why its not dead. Selling absolutely horrible and the line up doesn't even have a single system seller. This sounds like the PS3 all over again except the millions of profits Sony wasted on saving the PS3 are no longer available.



Soundwave on 23 August 2012
Chark said:

HappySqurriel said:

 Even if the PS-Vita's hardware is profitable, on the whole Sony is losing a ton of money on it right now ...

Back in 2001 Nintendo and Microsoft both claimed to have a $500 Million marketing budget for the first year of their console's lives; which sounds like a lot of money until you consider that this is spread over 3 regions and over 12 months, working out to being about $20 million per region per month, and 1 30 second television advertisement in primetime costs over $1 Million. I haven't seen any reference to it but I suspect Sony is spending at least $500 Million to market the PS-Vita in 2012, and this would be about $100 per system they will have sold that they need to recover.

Beyond this there is the money that Sony has spent developing games, and the sales of most of their games today would indicate that the vast majority of their released games have lost a lot of money.

 

For console manufacturers the costs are so high that you have to sell a significant number of systems each resulting in enough game sales for the licensing fees to be high enough to compensate. At 2.5 Million units Sony has to be bleeding money at the moment.

No Sony announced a $50 million marketing plan for Vita this year. There is no reason to believe that Sony is loosing money on the Vita, sure they aren't hitting the projections they originally apsired to but the system itself is an outlet of profit. Killing the system off now is a sure fire way to lose money on it, they will never have an opportunity to make enough money back from its development. It is outrageously a bad decision.

The system's manufacturing costs will go down, they will place in price drops when the are reasonable. The system isn't making them a ton of cash but it isn't bleeding money. They need to keep everything that makes them money right now. The idea that it is failing or that it is dead is subjective because it is often weighed against competitors or past devices. PSP sold 9 million its first year, suffered from rampant pirating, and didn't have many online offerings at all. Vita might not be selling well, but it is a concrete system thusfar with EVERY title available digitally and a much more upgradable OS. Where is the line in the sand? How many devices does it need to sell? Vita will be a far more profitable venture than the PSP, Sony only needs to stand their ground during this PR onslaught.


LOL, lets not get crazy. The PSP sold like 65+ million units of hardware, probably all at a profit too. 

I think Vita is going to end up in GameCube territory (23-24 million LTD) and it may have to struggle to even get there. 

It's nice they have an upgradable OS, but what device nowadays doesn't? 

This isn't a PR onslaught. This is a "the general public doesn't give a crap" onslaught. 

The Vita is just one of the many victims (hi Blackberry) of Apple's impact on the portable device sector. The handheld industry as a whole is going to contract a lot, Nintendo can withstand it better because of their lock on the kids portable market and their loyal fanbase, but even they will likely see their handheld userbase slashed in half from the DS era. Sony is basically screwed. 



Chark on 23 August 2012
oni-link said:
HappySqurriel said:
Chark said:

 

Oni-link, you obviously don't understand the industry very well. 

1st, you are determined to believe that the Vita is selling at a loss without any evidence and against a reasonable defense that it is at least breaking even. Hardware aside Vita is selling memory cards, accessories, and both retail and digital software. All of which is selling at a profit. No one should attest to the Vita not being a profitable venture. Over 2 million owners right now purchasing items over the next several years including all digital accessibility adds up to a lot of cash. To call it quits now would be sacrificing the millions of dollars it took to R&D and produce the console. Practically being one of the worst business decisions the company could make right now.

2nd, the Vita hasn't hit a proper holiday season yet and trying to include last year in Japan is pathetic, besides selling 481,573 in the 3 weeks it had there in December doesn't help your position? Sales will start picking up entering into the holiday and until we witness a full WW holiday season it is only grasping at straws to claim the Vita is dead.

3rd, support is coming for the system. Sony's Gamescom conference was almost entirely for the Vita, presenting big franchise titles and announcing highly anticipated new IPs. Sony is obviously not holding back on their dedication for the system. They've placed several developers onto the Vita all of which has a cost. If the console was to be killed off all that money would go to waste and more would have to be spent if they were ported over to PS3 to salvage them. There is no indication from Sony whatsoever that the system is going anywhere but forward. They also announced PS1 classic support, PS+, dedicated Cross Buy, and PS Mobile this fall for Vita.

4th, Sony hasn't even taken any drastic moves to "fix" the system. There hasn't been a price drop for the console or for the memory cards. They are approaching the holiday season with bundles and creating the Cross Buy incentive, of which barely affects software sales as practically no one buys the same game twice. Long before the system could ever die price cuts would be made, several even.

The money is made on the back end of a system, not on the system itself. It seems like you along with many others have drunk the hate Sony coolaid. No matter what move the company does there seems to be a lot of opposition against them. Maybe there in lies their actual problem. A Public Relations issue could very well be the reason the Vita isn't selling well. On one hand there are the internet masses that push their own agenda against the company, write that off as much as you like but public opinion is moldable and can have dramatic sweeping effects over any topic. I've studied it and there are countless examples of the public being manipulated by organizations or even by a few individuals, is it such a surprise that a larger amount of people as unimportant as some of those might be are able to sway the purchasing decision of millions of people using the most advanced and capable communications device history has ever known?

So I must implore you, and every last one of you, who are attacking this company to stop. Regardless of what satisfaction or what purpose you feel it serves to have your opinion heard on the internet, you are doing others a great disservice and and damaging a company's name of whose consumers enjoy their products. You yourself might feel your opinion has no affect, but how many actually see your threads? And from there how many have their opinion affected and create their own threads? So on and so forth. Destructive opinions are far more effective than constructive ones, that's why flame articles recieve more attention that positive ones. Do you not know what you do or are you intentionally aiming for the outcome your threads project?

 

Even if the PS-Vita's hardware is profitable, on the whole Sony is losing a ton of money on it right now ...

Back in 2001 Nintendo and Microsoft both claimed to have a $500 Million marketing budget for the first year of their console's lives; which sounds like a lot of money until you consider that this is spread over 3 regions and over 12 months, working out to being about $20 million per region per month, and 1 30 second television advertisement in primetime costs over $1 Million. I haven't seen any reference to it but I suspect Sony is spending at least $500 Million to market the PS-Vita in 2012, and this would be about $100 per system they will have sold that they need to recover.

Beyond this there is the money that Sony has spent developing games, and the sales of most of their games today would indicate that the vast majority of their released games have lost a lot of money.

 

For console manufacturers the costs are so high that you have to sell a significant number of systems each resulting in enough game sales for the licensing fees to be high enough to compensate. At 2.5 Million units Sony has to be bleeding money at the moment.


But the fact is the PS Vita is not selling for a profit but a loss!!!  Sony's history of  selling hardware at a loss already somewhat proves that point.  The fact that Kaz expected to make a profit off hardware after 3 years also highlights this.  http://www.examiner.com/article/sony-to-sell-playstation-vita-for-a-loss-profitable-3yrs . Putting ones head under the sand and pretending that the Vita as a hardware is not sold at a loss is insane.  The 3DS cost ~$100 to make and sold at a loss for $170.   The Vita obviously cost more to make at ~$170-200 and selling less software than predicted IS SELLING AT A LOSS.  There is no proof of profitablility otherwise, besides fanboys in forums like neogaf and such.


How many times do I have to explain to you what this means. You quote the same article over and over again yet it just highlights my points. That article title is false! They wrote it to attract views. It references a quote that the Vita as a whole will be profitable in 3 years, that's R&D, that's marketing, that's everything. It does not say whether the Vita hardware is selling at a loss or a profit, it doesn't even bring it up. I've used information based an independent group study that manufacturing costs are $160, using that information the Vita is most likely selling at break even or at a small profit. I've broken down this information for you and you have yet to contest it with anything other than your desire for it not to be true. That is the only evidence of it selling either at a loss or a profit and it leans towards profit. NOWHERE can you find it costing $170-$200 to produce, you are fabricating that information.

You are clearly lying and spreading hate for the system regardless of being educated on the issue. If by any means you have some actual evidence I would be happy see it. Until then, spread your hate elsewhere as I will always champion against your misinformation on this site.



Before the PS3 everyone was nice to me :(

HappySqurriel on 23 August 2012
Chark said:

HappySqurriel said:

 Even if the PS-Vita's hardware is profitable, on the whole Sony is losing a ton of money on it right now ...

Back in 2001 Nintendo and Microsoft both claimed to have a $500 Million marketing budget for the first year of their console's lives; which sounds like a lot of money until you consider that this is spread over 3 regions and over 12 months, working out to being about $20 million per region per month, and 1 30 second television advertisement in primetime costs over $1 Million. I haven't seen any reference to it but I suspect Sony is spending at least $500 Million to market the PS-Vita in 2012, and this would be about $100 per system they will have sold that they need to recover.

Beyond this there is the money that Sony has spent developing games, and the sales of most of their games today would indicate that the vast majority of their released games have lost a lot of money.

 

For console manufacturers the costs are so high that you have to sell a significant number of systems each resulting in enough game sales for the licensing fees to be high enough to compensate. At 2.5 Million units Sony has to be bleeding money at the moment.

No Sony announced a $50 million marketing plan for Vita this year. There is no reason to believe that Sony is loosing money on the Vita, sure they aren't hitting the projections they originally apsired to but the system itself is an outlet of profit. Killing the system off now is a sure fire way to lose money on it, they will never have an opportunity to make enough money back from its development. It is outrageously a bad decision.

The system's manufacturing costs will go down, they will place in price drops when the are reasonable. The system isn't making them a ton of cash but it isn't bleeding money. They need to keep everything that makes them money right now. The idea that it is failing or that it is dead is subjective because it is often weighed against competitors or past devices. PSP sold 9 million its first year, suffered from rampant pirating, and didn't have many online offerings at all. Vita might not be selling well, but it is a concrete system thusfar with EVERY title available digitally and a much more upgradable OS. Where is the line in the sand? How many devices does it need to sell? Vita will be a far more profitable venture than the PSP, Sony only needs to stand their ground during this PR onslaught.


That was $50 Million to cover the PS-Vita's launch in the United States, and probably only represented 4 weeks of advertisements ...



phenom08 on 23 August 2012

@Chark Off topic but what year do you think the Vita will sell 8 to 10 million. That prediction kinda makes you look un reliable.